One of the funniest but wisest quotes I've ever read was from the recent bestselling book & Twitter feed "Shit My Dad Says." The author recounts a time when he was telling his father about a girl he'd just been on a date with. Dejected, he tells his dad that she is obviously out of his league. His dad replies:
I've been dumbfounded at some of the shit women tell me on dates. It reflects so poorly on them, yet they tell it to me voluntarily. I get the impression that they are trying to be "candid" or "unfiltered," but that intention is only appropriate for people who have nothing in their life that needs to be filtered.
Although there are some situations in which it is necessary to do so, as a rule you should never voluntarily talk about or even mention any of the following:
It isn't as if all negative comments need to be purged from your conversation. It is fine to mention small things, like "God, it's so frustrating; the seats of my BMW are taking sooo long to break in..." or "Argh! I hate this cell phone, it is constantly auto-updating." While these kinds of comments might make you seem frivolous, it is better that these are the problems on your mind, rather than your upcoming psychiatric exam or how you can't possibly pay the rent next month. When it comes to big things, keep your mouth shut about anything negative.
If you have serious issues that you think your boyfriend should probably know about, like a serious STD or an alcoholic father, you can and probably should tell him about them - eventually. Bring up the bad things only after he's had a chance to see the positive aspects of your life that outweigh them.
"That woman was sexy...Out of your league? Son. Let women figure out why they won't screw you, don't do it for them."Of course the advice in this specific instance is about sex and women. But encapsulated in his words is a lesson that many people - men and women - painfully need to learn. Regardless of how bad your situation in life is, you should always hold your head high and illustrate or describe your personal situation in the best light possible. There is simply never a need, under any circumstances, to highlight the negative aspects of your life. There will always be external factors working against you - biology, genetics, social stigmas, gossip, etc. You don't need to contribute to them. Never tell a man why he shouldn't want to date you.
I've been dumbfounded at some of the shit women tell me on dates. It reflects so poorly on them, yet they tell it to me voluntarily. I get the impression that they are trying to be "candid" or "unfiltered," but that intention is only appropriate for people who have nothing in their life that needs to be filtered.
Although there are some situations in which it is necessary to do so, as a rule you should never voluntarily talk about or even mention any of the following:
- Guys that have broken up with you, or any failed relationships
- Difficulties you have finding a guy
- How much it sucks being single
- That you have been raped or physically abused
- Any bad life experiences you've had (or are having)
- Family drama (e.g. that your mother despises your father's parents)
- Your lack of a social life
- Your dissatisfaction with your current life situation
- Your struggles with depression, a disability, or being a single mother
- How much you hate your job
It isn't as if all negative comments need to be purged from your conversation. It is fine to mention small things, like "God, it's so frustrating; the seats of my BMW are taking sooo long to break in..." or "Argh! I hate this cell phone, it is constantly auto-updating." While these kinds of comments might make you seem frivolous, it is better that these are the problems on your mind, rather than your upcoming psychiatric exam or how you can't possibly pay the rent next month. When it comes to big things, keep your mouth shut about anything negative.
If you have serious issues that you think your boyfriend should probably know about, like a serious STD or an alcoholic father, you can and probably should tell him about them - eventually. Bring up the bad things only after he's had a chance to see the positive aspects of your life that outweigh them.
Same for men.
ReplyDeletePure gold, Andrew. So true...
ReplyDeleteOn the topic of "TMI", has "reverse engineering" specific aspects of female beauty for this blog altered what you're attracted to?
ReplyDelete- Serena
Not really... it has helped me recognize what it is that I find attractive (or unattractive) about a woman, and it's helped me identify those things more easily. However it hasn't changed them.
DeleteI don't understand why you didn't ask the girl out that said she was raped, i mean, how does that suddenly make her unattractive and how is that her "fault", i mean hello, how do you define rape? It's like you're saying/ In a relationship, be shallow until.... I mean what about the choose to go forward with anybody only if they can establish a real connection based on real shit like "rape" instead of BMW car seats (and really who complains about that, wtf).
DeleteYeah that's some seriously awful stuff right there. Victims feel bad enough having to brand themselves as abuse victims (trust me, I've had so many women freak out at times over the recurring realization that they have to label themselves as something they didn't choose), so it's completely nuts to me that a man would reject a woman solely because she's been a victim by abuse.
DeleteUnless there's a very good explanation, the author totally lost my respect there. Jesus.
Not asking her out is the best choice he could have made. The most likely scenarios:
Delete1) She WASN'T raped. and as is typical is just using the word as a play for sympathy. Chances are she banged the two guys, realized people thought she was just a dirty whore now, and cried rape.
2) She WAS raped (unlikely), and is no severely damaged in the head. He's not a mechanic, or Mr. Fixit, and there is no repairing these people anyway. Why bother to try to clean up the mess someone else made, when all it's going to do is create stress for you and you will never make any progress?
If a she threw that out there willy-nilly then that means she's not over it. Why would you want to date that? Especially as a first impression.
DeleteSame for men when it comes to money. I won't lie, when a guy comes across as financially useless, something ticks off in my mind. I guess it's just that natural female desire for security from a man. So basically we shouldn't lay down the negative aspects of our lives at first?....Got it!
ReplyDeleteThis is the exact reason women lose respect for a man who does not pay the full bill on a first date... Not that we feel entitled to a free meal simply based on gender, but that we need to know that a man has enough expendable income to afford the date, indicating that he may be able to provide for a family
Deletei find that to be untrue. I don't lose respect for a guy who doesn't pay the bill, and i certainly don't think "There goes the country club membership and that trip to Cabo". I don't care, at least not consciously if a guy has money or not and frankly it's not fair to much so muck stock in money when the guy is probably da bomb. It's as though you were told a guy didn't wanna go out with you or lost respect for you because you don't have child-bearing hips. That's bullshit.
DeleteNo, they're just being honest Anon (July 11). Women are attracted to two things, money and status. Some of them admit it, most don't.
DeleteSome people feel they're just being honest by telling you the whole story, but I agree that the first few dates aren't the best place to do it.
ReplyDeleteOnce you have secured a man's love, loyalty, trust, that's the time when you can slowly tell him about your life. When a man really loves you, he won't be as taken aback as some man that you barely know.
So it seems more honest to hide things that might make the other person stop to consider what they're doing, until you've truly got your hooks in?
DeleteGot it.
I've always wondered what girls motivation was for mentioning being raped to someone they've just met. Is it attention?
ReplyDeleteNo, it's actually a pretty horrible event that far surpasses such trivialities as attention-seeking, which you of course cannot comprehend since you would have no idea what it's like, and the horrible things that victims have to deal with past the event. Instead of boiling it down to "geez drama queen" perhaps it would be a good idea to start reading up about the subject in order to get a deeper understanding of the issue and how behaviors like the one we're discussing can manifest themselves. I'm pretty sure it would give you a less condescending and more forgiving attitude.
Delete*rolleyes* Blah blah blah
DeleteAttentionwhoring. Plain and simple. If she mentions it, she wasn't raped. It's a test to see how sympathetic you are. If you show any sympathy (which is weakness to women), NEXT!
I mentioned it occasionally when I was in my early 20s, and it was because I was still upset about it. I think part of it was that I wanted new guys to be super protective. I also wanted to establish in my head that they were different from the guys who raped me/knew it was happening and didn’t stop it.
DeleteAlso, I had some lingering issues that I needed to work through. I (subconsciously) saw my being raped as a huge failure on the part of the men in my life as a group—the male friends who were at my house and allowed the rapists to leave without confronting them, a controlling and subtly demeaning ex-boyfriend who left my self-esteem in the shitter (I realize, of course, that I played a role in that. This was simply my view at the time), my dad being neglectful, etc. I was hurt and wanted some dude to swoop in and redeem all men in my eyes.
So yeah, if a woman has such a problem with a past event that it supersedes her better judgment/boundaries and she brings it up on an early date, she probably has some issues with men that are not yours to clean up.
Now that I’m in my late 20s, I feel much better about it and don’t even think to bring it up. But I must ask: why are so angry about women allegedly “crying rape”? I don't understand this response from men. Nobody is accusing YOU of anything. The appropriate response seems to be along the line of, “Yeah! F those guys! I love women and I’ve got your back, ladies!!” (notice that isn't sympathy per se). Easy. No loss on your part. So any other action, to me, just comes across as you hating women.
Maxamillian-It's not attention, but wanting validation and having the need to "spill it out." Some rape and sexual abuse victims feel that they need to explain themselves to others. They feel that everyone can else can see that they're "damaged."
ReplyDelete"here will always be external factors working against you - biology, genetics, social stigmas, gossip, etc."
ReplyDeleteWhen you say "gossip", is that something you have experience with? As a girl, I have been victim of it - from a rejected guy - and I am sure from jealous girls in the past. Is this something girls should worry about, or go out of their way to confront if they sense there may be an untrue rumor out there?
My advice to you on that one thing (gossip), is to not let it get to you. Quite simply, who gives a monkey-flung fuck? You weren't born to please people and if whoever it is you're interested in is influenced by the gossip then they are clearly a waste of time. You shouldn't be scrambling all over town to make the gossip disappear just so some random will love you. *over-the-top eye roll*
Deletemate, she was screening you. A man who doesn't have any compassion makes a shit partner, she was well rid of you
ReplyDeleteYes! Men who care and make deep connections have had long lasting marriages because of that, even on the first date. Sometimes it's those intimate problems and issues that bond people. I've seen this.
DeleteAs a woman, I completely disagree! She offered this information before a first date let alone an emotional connection could take place. It's one thing to find out about past scars when you already feel an emotional connection and are therefore more apt to have compassion, and quite another see it as a red flag for emotional issues before commiting to a date
DeleteExcellent advice!! Thanks!
ReplyDelete"1. Guys that have broken up with you, or any failed relationships"
ReplyDeleteWhat if you enter the topic of a guy you dated before/he asks, and the guy in question was an asshole.. Is it a warning sign if you get the impression the relationship ended badly? Should I try to make it sound more peaceful than it was?
Very good honest advice, a friend of mine had an affair with her best friends husband and asked me if she should tell potential dates.I was like no waaay!!! We all have faults but the first few months of dating should be carefree and fun
ReplyDeleteI just re-read this list and realized I may have been guilty of this.
ReplyDeleteI have been dating this guy and on one date I was complaining about my studies and how morning classes were too early etc. I didn't say it in a very serious way though, kind of half-jokingly about how "exhausting" it was to be at school at 9am 3 days a week. My ex hated early mornings as well and used to mock me about how I was spoiled and couldn't function on 7 hours sleep.
But now I'm thinking that maybe it could come across as me being generally dissatisfied with my studies and a bit negative? Or is it only really serious conversations about hating stuff about your life which is a problem?
I think Andrew was referring to very heavy negative personal issues and any serious life crisis that should not be thrown out on the table for inspection (early on in a relationship) and not your frustration about the way your studies are making you feel tired. Especially, as you have conveyed this in a light hearted way, it seems it is less likely to be something that a boyfriend would view too negatively.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, that aside there is one general and very sensible rule that applies to any female and it is this:- NEVER EVER, sleep with a guy before 3 months of solid dating. That way, you will know if he has cared to get to know the real you enough and you will also know him much more too. Even then, you are under no obligation to sleep with him.
Why give away your most desired asset for free? Even a prostitute would expect something in return for sex on the first night. Yet so many girls think this is the way to get a man to love them....they are so wrong because in reality, the opposite is actually true. If a man takes time to get to know you, want you, repect you as a person then he has invested some of his own feelings in you and your life and you stand far more chance of making something work in the longer run with a relationship that starts slowly and becomes more meaningful. If a guy has sex with you on the first night or after just a couple of dates then he will see that as a conquest that was easy and in his head you will be thought of as 'an easy fuck' (sorry to be so blunt)...and that is probably the last thing you want him to think of you.
I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteIf a man hides his serious issues from me until after a lot of my time gets wasted from me, it actually makes me feel deceived, which would make me feel seduction techniques only. It also makes me feel the possibility that the man may have other issues which he has not told me yet which can be more scary. Then the problem for me would not be limited to just whether or not I could tolerate the issues he told me of, but also I'd need to consider if I could tolerate those potential problems of his which he has *not* told me yet - for if he could hide some things from me, he could be still hiding more which I have not found out yet.
I think that if some serious problems can be told of ahead of time before commitment, then nobody would be hurt. Nor would anybody's time get wasted. For if somebody can not accept the problems ahead of time, then at least there is no painful splitting up caused by it.
I also acknowledge that it depends on what types of issues the dating partner is hiding. If e.g. the guy tries to hide about his martial status lying to be single and only tells the truth after he thinks the girls is successfully seduced and emotionally binded, then that absolutely is not right. But if it was some other types of issues, well it depends, maybe sometimes telling about them later is ok.
Why was it necessary for you to mention the race of the rapists?
ReplyDeleteAnother question that comes to mind: why was it necessary for her to?
DeleteI agree the heavy stuff doesn't need to come out on the first date. I just started dating again after years (and I mean years) of a dry spell due to personal family issues whereby I had to stay close to home. I'm NOT going to mention that stuff on a first date. The kind of stuff I like to talk about is traveling and will tell him about places/trips I've been on and some of my observations. Keep it light and witty. Most guys can connect with that somehow. I've traveled a lot on my own and have found that guys are strangely fascinated by a woman's independent streak. Correct me if I'm wrong but I do think guys like women that exhibit the ability to enjoy their own company as well as the company of others.
ReplyDeleteWhat about something like an ongoing physical handicap? I don't want to be a downer, but I don't want to scare a guy off too soon. If I was looking for a fun time/non-serious thing, I wouldn't feel as compelled to share information. But if I felt a good connection or was looking for something serious, I think I should mention it, the earlier the better. I have an Acquired Brain Injury. Can't exactly see it externally, but this fact requires a lot of understanding and accommodations from the get-go, will definitely influence the interactions (despite my best efforts not to), and I think it would only be dair to let a potential partner know as soon as possible. If it got serious, there would be certain responsibilities they would have to undertake, much to my dismay. And I don't want to waste time getting attached to people, only to have them run when they find it out. Conversely, I wouldn't want to mislead them, and disappoint them if/when they realize they cannot give me what I need.
ReplyDeleteHow does one navigate something like that?
I have bipolar disorder. I don't bring it up until I know someone very well, if ever. Let your sun shine; any friend would love assist and support you.
DeleteI think the way you discussed the girl who mentioned the rape is quite crass and in poor taste.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I understand how an alcoholic father is OK but "family drama" is not OK.
ReplyDeleteIt has been my experience that on a first or second date, when a man mentions
ReplyDeletethat he has a bitch of an ex,
a bit too much now and then,
hates his boss,
or is falling for me fast,
he's making a few steps towards gaining my acceptance and permission. He is testing me. He might raise his voice a bit, talk mean to the server, and use the odd racist term.
He is doing me a favour (as is his female equivalent)......
He or she is an asshole. Bye, bye.
This is my first time on your website, but this is very interesting, especially as a young woman with zero dating experience.
ReplyDeleteI think that sometimes, it might even be a fear of success. Fear of failure is the most obvious thing that people can relate too, but fear of success - especially in being unprepared and overwhelmed by good things you didn't dare hope would *really* happen to you - can also be quite crippling.
When is it okay to talk about these things?
ReplyDeleteI don't mean huge problems like rape or abuse, more like general worries. I've been on a few dates with a guy and he's sometimes traveling abroad but writes me a lot. When I once told him I had a stressful day he told me to "talk to him" (probably out of courtesy though). I am always very attentive to him and show understanding for long work days or help him unwind after a stressful day (never nag him). Surely it is okay to talk about some of the things that are bothering me and making me sleepless?
Hey looks like i fucked up it all haha.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, is casual dating really a good way to find your significant other? I mean time wise? I've read almost all your posts and think you are very mature and smart for your age. If as you described you are also VERY good looking, will you say it's mostly because you're too good for the girls you can meet in your real life so that you still haven't found HER yet? My point is, do you agree that the better you are, the fewer choices you have in reality and if you don't want to compromise you'll have to be prepared to stay single longer?
ReplyDeleteI guess your post is true for people on a casual first date, when the mutual attraction is not great. If the date is the guy's dream girl, will he want to learn about her potential vulnerability even on the first date to gain some power over her? Obviously a "dream" girl must have the figure, face, voice, walk, talk, smile (warmth), brain, etc. and always looks stunning to the guy, despite his masculinity...
Actually, I want to know too, what is it about her getting raped that made you not want to date her? Or was it because she told you in a way you felt was a) too quick b) too casual c) both ? Or is it just that upon hearing that, thinking about how a relationship would benefit yourself, u thought there would be more mess than enjoyment?
ReplyDeleteI think it's more about the need to say it than anything else. I remember I went out on a date with one guy, older than me, who felt the need to tell me upfront that he wasn't in a good financial situation and that turned me off immediately. Not because I'm a gold digger -- I go to college and everyone's broke cause we're all students, so I always assume that the guys I'm dating are broke. I guess that the need to say it just comes across as insecure, as if you think you may not be enough, a very unattractive quality.
DeleteLike your blog, but your comment about the girl who was raped by "two black men" is a little racially suggestive. Their race shouldn't matter..."two men" would have done well enough.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but I strongly recommend that you remove the race of the men who supposedly raped this woman. It is odd that their race is mentioned...you mention race nowhere in your previous and subsequent posts, except for this one & it just so happens to be negative. Secondly, you do not know if her story is true, so there is no need to post specifics.
ReplyDeleteHello! I'm not sure if you're still reading these comments but. I have a question about this. If you have something negative that is ongoing in your life that may not be easy for everyone to deal with (like an anxiety disorder), to me, it feels like you should be open and honest right away? I get what you're saying. I just think it seems cruel to pretend you're this flawless human being and then once you hook him you drop the bomb that you're not as whatever as you portrayed. Does that make sense?
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ReplyDelete