Below is my take on the phenomenon he recognizes. You'll notice that I kept a couple of his points. I also used a list format so that the differences can be seen more clearly.
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Thursday, January 10, 2013
Misconceptions
Below is my take on the phenomenon he recognizes. You'll notice that I kept a couple of his points. I also used a list format so that the differences can be seen more clearly.
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Hey..great post..do you mind if I link it from my blog? My blog focus more on men's issues and once in a while I touch upon things that women are doing to sabatoge themselves.
ReplyDeleteNot at all, go for it.
DeleteFor those interested, the hyperlink: http://baller08.blogspot.com/2013/01/why-men-arent-attracted-to-you.html
DeleteSolid. The only one that sets me wrong is personality v. intelligence. YMMV, but intelligent men generally prefer intelligent women. The smartest, together dudes I know are all seeking the Holy Grail of hot, smart, fit, sexy. Oh, and unicorns with fairy wings. And Bigfoot.
ReplyDeleteYou will be interested in the post I have coming up called "What Men Think About Your Intelligence"
DeleteI think you'll find that we are on the same page, but I think you will also see my reason for stating it the way I have here.
Can't wait for that post. Men don't care about intelligence when it is just about sex - intelligence could be a negative here. However, when it comes to bearing and taking care of his children, I think he would want intelligence (oh honey I didn't know normal healthy body temperature is 37 degrees celsius and not 98 degrees celsius. Is our baby dead ? oh my ! )
DeleteIntelligence used to solve and prevent problems is good. Intelligence used to mock and denigrate others (especially hubby) is not so.
Actually, maybe men should worry about intelligence even if it is just sex - oh honey I didn't know you had to take the pill every day ! I thought if I skipped three days I could make it up by taking three pills next time. Will you marry me now that I am pregnant ?
DeleteAndrew,
ReplyDeleteThis was a really fun and honest post. I had left a comment one time about Girl Hot vs. Guy Hot. This is essentially what I was getting at, but I must have done a poor job of explaining it because you said that there wasn't a difference. Thank you for laying it out there. I like these kinds of posts.
How interesting. The list on the left, things that *actually* make girls attractive, takes the pressure off of women. The left list focuses on being open to things: willingness to cook, take an interest in things men love, etc. In my opinion, the list on the right represents those characteristics girls/women display when they are not self assured in a relationship: being sassy for example.
ReplyDeleteAlso, my default is to be sweet. It's funny, after going through university I ended up picking up this nasty (read: insecure) habit from my friends. I would sass back to the men flirting with me. It eventually stopped. Through trial and error, I actually tested what men were more receptive too. And becoming more comfortable in my own skin.
DeleteA man fills the openness in a woman - emotionally, sexually, romantically, personally. The man finds his fulfillment in penetrating her life, body, soul and mind, and she finds hers in receiving him.
DeleteThat sounds like it was lifted from a relationship book I once read, Andrew. Some therapist --- I can't remember her name --- and I picked up the book because it had a picture of Cupid and Psyche on the cover. The chapters I read were about the mechanics of human bodies and how men are, physiologically, built to "give" and women "receive". I'd like to say the adage "you can't choose a book by its cover..." was relevant, here, but I did get something out of it; I laughed so hard in the book aisle, I almost knocked my head against the wall.
DeleteIt was "lifted," as you say, from a book called The Way of the Superior Man, which I discussed in another post. I would never had thought to use those words until I saw it written that way in the book, but I've seen the concept at work countless times, and this is a good way of articulating it.
DeleteI agree this concept works where there are a feminine woman and a masculine man in a relationship.Feminine women want to be taken care of and "protected" by their man.Im this kind of girl,I love feeling cherished by my boyfriend.
DeleteI have female friends who are more masculine than me, they wouldnt move jobs/location to be with a guy.They would not want a guy to take the lead so this puts them in a more male role. This just means that roles are reversed and a more feminine guyis right for them.
I know ONE girl like this (note: not more). I think you should look at their personalities as a whole. I know women who appear independent, are financially well-off and are focused on their careers. But they struggle to find a partner and in the end, they often complain about the men they're dating not being ambitious enough, being lazy or not attending to their needs. If they were honest with themselves, they would prefer a dominant male to "sweep them off their feet". The independent woman role is hard to shake off, because it's been imprinted in our minds since we were children.
DeleteThe amount of women, worldwide, with a genuinely masculine mindset, is very small. Less than 10%, really.
I agree that my friends may not be completely honest with themselves,they are high fliers and like me have been brought up in a culture where they are taught to be independent.They MIGHT want a man to sweep them off their feet, but they'd have to give up a certain level of control and at least be in some part dependent on a man.I don't think they are willing to do so.
DeleteIts an emotional risk to fall in love, to marry and to commit to someone,I think my friends don't want to take the risk.
Well done.
ReplyDeleteThough I have to suggest that 'not acting like a slut' be amended to 'not being a slut'.
Well not acting like a slut indirectly implies not being a slut.
DeleteWhen the readership is over the age of 16 I don't think everything needs to be written in black and white.
Not 'acting like a slut' will be interpreted as 'don't appear to be a slut, even if you are'.
DeleteFifty girls read the above statement and immediately rationalized their double-digit partner counts away because they don't wear revealing clothes and flirt with every guy that looks at them, unlike Kelly, that slutty bitch.
Ninety percent of the women reading this blog will have an immediate emotional reaction spinning whatever is said in their favor. The less wiggle room in the semantics, the better.
Thanks. I think it's time to scale back on the casual sex. What do you think of Friends-With-Benefit relationships? I have never and wouldn't be in one. I don't get how any woman can.
ReplyDeleteAnd I have always been really sweet so I'll have to get that back having been convinced that is what a weakness. The problem is that I've picked the wrong guys. I just need to find the right one. But how can I show how sweet I am and not be thought of as boring or having no backbone? A lot of men aren't into me. I think they want less sweet women for now because they don't want to settle down.
I'm not proud of it and I don't regret it but I think my having casual sex stemmed from the perception that men don't want a sweet girl and that I had to change myself. I had this abusive boyfriend, and it made me think "why be sweet when no man will appreciate it?"
DeleteBut I'm going to get the real me back again.
You would like these posts:
Delete1. No, You Can't be "Just Friends"
2. Living Vulnerably
Thank you, Andrew. On vulnerability, have you ever seen the TED talk by Brené Brown?
DeleteI thought about your posts as well and I am making changes already to how I date. I've gotten results, maybe not in terms of attracting men (but I don't meet many anyway), but more in terms of the fact that I don't anguish so much over men because your advice has taught me not to over-analyse their intentions. Now even when I get blown off, the upset lasts less than a day before I'm up on my feet again. I feel in control again.
I have, yes, but it was a while ago and I didn't pay very close attention. A friend sent it to me. At the time, I wasn't as receptive as I should have been because I didn't identify the phenomenon she was talking about with the one I was thinking about (at the time I hadn't heard it called "vulnerability" - I was thinking about it in my mind as "authenticity" so I didn't make the connection). I might have to go back and give it another view.
DeleteGlad to hear some of this is helping.
Isn't knowing how to cook implying that she does cook? She cannot know how without practice - that just means 'can read a recipe'. Or 'can read'.
ReplyDeleteI've always found that making a delicious meal is a plus point for a man.
Willingness is the key difference. She may have been taught to cook but she might not enjoy it.
DeleteMen don't care so much that you are a culinary artist as they want to be fed (read: nurtured).
There use to be a time when girls went to "charm" school to learn poise, posture, femininity, etc... I think there aren't too many role models for women these days on how to be feminine, making it harder for girls to figure out what actually makes them attractive.
ReplyDeleteI mean Sarah Palin isn't exactly brainy, but I'm sure more men would choose her over Hillary any day for a wife.
If they aren't afraid of a wackadoo who might poison them in their sleep, if they crossed her.
DeleteLol women don't exist to please you XD
DeleteGreat post - although I'm a bit confused as to why confidence isn't on the left column as well though? Surely an insecure woman is very unattractive?
ReplyDeleteOr am I conflating two separate concepts?
Confidence is definitely attractive in a woman, as is intelligence (also in the right column). But a man does not seek it in a woman as much as he seeks it in himself - or as much as he seeks the corresponding traits on the left.
DeleteWhat's the difference between feminine and flirty hairstyles in this case, if I might ask? The rest seems pretty accurate indeed.
ReplyDeleteI had in mind shorter, perky "stylish" hairstyles (flirty) and long, full, more traditionally feminine hairstyles (feminine)
DeleteOkay, this is where I'd give Andrew credit and think "he seems like a decent and honest person, if a little confused about some things". Women get ticked when most men don't appreciate their super-short hairstyles --- even really creative ones --- but they have to think of their opposing likes and dislikes; what's more attractive, men with very long hair or men with shorter, neater hair?
DeleteAnd I'm not talking about ethnic texture, I mean length. There's a big difference between River Phoenix-long and Dog the bounty hunter -long. Some women love long hair on men, but not as many as who love short or medium length, nomatter how good, kind, smart and decent these girls may be. It's the same with facial hair; most young women are completely turned-off by any facial hair, at all, with few exceptions. I think that's generational. Our Dads and the creepy leches that hit on us as teens, generally wore facial hair of some sort. The girls who love and prefer it, usually do for its quirk factor.
Even though the list can read as if the paired qualities are contrasts, some of the things on the "girl list" is naturally associated with that on the "guys list".
ReplyDeleteeg.
Being well traveled usually means she is also wiling to travel.
Knowing how to cook generally makes her more willing to cook
Being funny is usually correlated to having a sense of humour
I think the difference is just a matter of degree.
True. And it is a matter of degree, in a way. It is a matter of these qualities being more "masculine" in nature and a man wanting to take the lead in them or being more drawn to them personally (in most cases). For example, it doesn't mean it will turn a guy OFF if a woman likes to travel, but all he needs for her to be attractive is for her willingness to travel with him.
DeleteA woman wants a man she can admire for his accomplishments, initiative, adventures, etc. and a man wants a woman who respects and admires him for those same things. If she is taking the lead on them (i.e. doing them in excess of him), neither party will be able to feel that. Ax ex girlfriend of mine said to me just a couple days ago (while complaining about her current boyfriend, who she babies constantly) "I just want a man who is better than me."
"I just want a man who is better than me"- I share that same sentiment. Which is why I'm dissatisfied, because the guys I've been in relationships with/dated in the past few years aren't better than me, in the sense that they're more immature, less responsible, and less successful, and I end up breaking it off because I don't see a point in continuing to date them. I feel like this might a common problem for many other post-grad twentysomething women.
DeleteGood insight as usual, Andrew.
Could someone comment on the difference between playing hard to get and actually being hard to get?
ReplyDeleteLet me try. Declining to go on a date this Friday because she wants him to try harder is playing hard to get. Declining to go on a date this Friday because she has Aikido practice means she is honestly not available. In the former case, who knows when she would feel comfortable to go out. In the latter case, it just takes a bit more efforts in scheduling.
ReplyDeleteThat's a pretty good example. The underlying difference is that in the case of playing hard to get, the girl is simply feigning the fact that she has other options, self-respect and the confidence to turn down a date (as in the example). But in the case of the girl who IS hard to get, she geniunely has a lot of value - looks, interests, personality, etc. which in turn give her options with men, self-respect and confidence.
DeleteThe girl playing hard to get thinks that it is her unobtain-ability that is attractive, when in reality, it is the things that MAKE her hard to get that are attractive. The facade will become transparent. So the moral is: spend time improving yourself rather than acting.
Can someone comment on the willingness of men to overlook women with these qualities so they can chase after drama queens with low-intelligence?
ReplyDeleteHazarding a guess here but physically attractive hot drama queens are probably the male equivalent of a bad boy..
DeleteThey are hotter than you. Work on your look or hit the gym.
Delete...and stop complaining.
So I gather unfortunately the takeaway is this: Attractiveness trumps everything on this list. No matter how much of everything else you might have on this list, if someone comes along who is more physically attractive, it won't mean for squat.
DeleteOr have I interpreted this incorrectly? Honestly, help me out here.
I think attractiveness counts for a lot.
DeleteNote that there are a lot of attractive women out there with great personalities too.
Why go for an average looking woman with good personality when you can get a great looking woman with good personality?
There is it. Ladies take note.
DeleteMost men will try for the most attractive woman they can get, just like most women will go for the most confident and successful man they can get.
DeleteI think most men would choose a sweet, fun, intelligent and charismatic 7 over a despicable 8. But you can consider whether a) your personality is not as amazing as you think it is or b) you are competing for men who can actually get a woman several points hotter than you (in which case you must improve your looks or go for a lower league of men).
@anon 7.44am
DeleteDon't get disheartened,just work on yourself.Be the best version of yourself you can be.Yes there are men who just want to sleep with Barbie dolls but there are a lot that don't.Know what you want,look your best,develop your personality and see what happens.
@anon 7:44am
DeleteYou'd be amazed how many couples I have come across in the space of just one day where the man is markedly decidedly more attractive on the male attractiveness scale and the woman is markedly decidedly less attractive on the female attractiveness scale - not just in terms of body mass, but also in terms of facial appearance. Really DO NOT know what is going on !!! I could possibly believe in such couplings if they were short term ones for the man's benefit, but long term marriages with kids ??? Yes, many of this mismatched couples have several rugrats in tow.
Maybe beauty is something that men fantasises about, but in reality have to settle for much less - just like women fantasise about living a chic Parisian bohemian lifestyle but have to settle for a boring nine to five existence in a Springfield office supply store six days a week.
I think you are right. This list, althought bit helpful, is very immature from a man's fantasy land. Most man want a bimbo looking hot chick who is fun loving and willing to give everything a try. But in reality most settle for a decent looking girl who won't cheat on him or treat him like a jerk.
DeleteIt is hard for man and woman, no point making demands but we all do
To all of you, yes, men LOVE attractive women - but here's the thing, they often won't MARRY the hottest ones. Having just had to break up with a strong/independent/feminist woman that I loved deeply and was extremely attracted to, but who got fed up with the bullshit, I'll tell you what you need to do. You need to be feminine, be nurturing, be in touch with your emotions, and care about being thin. You don't have to be hot, in fact it's better that you aren't if you want commitment! I can tell you, that while yes, I do enjoy the extreme dopamine rush I get from sleeping with an extremely physically attractive "bimbo" - I recognize that's all it is and then would NEVER commit to her. Also, read the following:
Deletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2063997/Too-sexy-laid-independent--Why-women-just-ARENT-wife-material.html
-Chris
No sane man would commit to a bimbo. The goal is obviously to be extremely attractive AND feminine and nurturing. They're not mutually exclusive.
DeleteBut I have been wondering if being in the top league can work against women, even if they have good personalities. I see so many high league men committing to average women. Woody Allen said "Men date beautiful women to show off to their friends, but marry normal looking ones". I really wonder what that's all about though. There are women who are stunning yet personable, just like there are confident/rich men who aren't assholes.
Interesting article!
DeleteMakes me ponder, what is too sexy? Where is the threshold? This brings me back to some state females shouldn't be too independent. What is considered to be too independent by men? When do you know that something is too much?
Hi Andrew, first time commenting, great blog.
ReplyDeleteI have tried to email you twice but both tries bounced. Help!
E.
Are you trying to send photos (maybe the file size is why it get's rejected)? If so try splitting them into separate e-mails or reducing the size of the photos.
DeleteOtherwise I don't see why it would get returned. There is nothing unique about the account; it's just a typical gmail account. My address is therulesrevisited@gmail.com
Maybe double check that you are spelling it correctly?
Question: What is it about a girl saying she has all guy friends that is a turn off to men? I just ask from a a place of curiosity...I mostly have female friends but I have a few good male friends who I grew up with, and they've hinted at it being a red flag/turnoff in women in general. I've also read the same sentiment on blogs. As a girl, I'll be honest that I find girls like that to be kind of bitchy/drama loving, but that's also kind of a generalization. I'd like to know what the male reason is though...
ReplyDeleteBecause we all KNOW that most guys don't ever want to be 'just friends'. If given the opportunity they would hook up with their female friends. Women can think of a guy just as a friend, like a brother, but men usually don't think that way of their female friends. So when a guy realizes his girl has a lot of guy friends, he has to question every guy's intention. Would you want your bf to have only female friends around him all the time?
DeleteMen don't like competition
Delete@femaleperspecive: yeah I see your point. The one thing though, guys with tons of female friends tend to be kind of effeminate themselves. In reality, most of the guys I know who have tons of close female friends are usually the same ones who have issues with girls thinking they're gay and not taking them seriously as romantic prospects. I was just curious if it was more of that scenario...
Delete@Priyanka hahah funny actually I had this same scenario happen last night. Went out w/ a bunch of my girlfriends, and our friend Sonny was the only guy in a sea of girls and he's what I would consider very unmanly. He was constantly indecisive on the menu of what he wanted to the point where we had to order for him. He didn't know what he wanted to drink so the waitress chose for him and then when he didn't like the dirty martini she suggested, I told him to ask for a different drink and he didn't want to "burden" the waitress. He's not feminine, just very passive and passivity in a guy is a BIG TURN OFF.
Delete@Priyanka but to answer your question if girls having a throng a male friends is similar to the scenario of a guy having a ton of female friends I don't have one, I think this is where Andrew you can come in and sound off. Like with my friend Sonny he comes off as passive. In a reverse situation would a girl with a bunch of guys around her send off dominant masculine signals to you, hence not finding her attractive?
DeleteAs a girl, I think of it as a hugeeeee red flag when I see a girl with primarily male friends and no close female friends-- to me, this signals that she cannot keep female friendships, which implies any/all of the following: 1) she routinely prioritizes guys over girls 2) she is a backstabber/disloyal friend 3) she is overly critical of other girls in general 4) she isn't very nice
DeleteThis is clearly a generalization, but perhaps this signals to men that the girl is not as sweet and/or feminine?
And 5) she's a slut.
DeleteThere is a term for this - "female dog whistle".
Most of the time, a girl's male friends are either 1) guys hoping to sleep with her or 2) men she's secretly interested in.
It's easy to have guys around because they won't mind having a (cute) woman around. Those friendships are based on other things. She's most likely lacking the personality required for genuine friendships with women.
I actually really envy girls that are able to shoot the shit with men. I think that one of my problems is that I'm TOO much of a girl's girl. I didn't grow up with any men and I don't know how to relate to them - at least not until recently. But what I'm saying is that I do think it is a good thing for a girl to be friends with guys but I also know what you mean about girls who ONLY have guy friends. I have found the same thing. They are usually not very nice to women.
DeleteThere is certainly the possibility of both extremes (i.e. only female or only male friendships), but usually when girls have only male friends they are doing it because they want affirmation from the men, not because they can relate to them and feel a real camaraderie there. Her friendships with only men is a red flag that she has had some lack of affection from men in her past and might have trouble having a relationship with them in her future. As someone already pointed out, it is similar to the cynicism you might have towards a man who is always chasing women (i.e. constantly seeing female approval).
DeleteMen (again, as someone point out above) have no problem with being friends with a girl, because they like having a woman around. They enjoy her energy - and besides, they have plenty of male friends already.
I don't think a woman being friends with lots of men signals that she is a slut.
Definitely agree that there are women that are friends with men just to get attention/affection/whatever. And then there are those who are just friends And really don't contemplate the gender.
DeleteAnd I know very few women who only have male friends, I have a lot of them but I also have close female friends.
There are a few guys that at some point were attracted to me but most of them weren't (and believe me, it's pretty easy to tell). The problems witj the readers here is however that most of you were born and raised into a "dating society". Never forget that the stereotypes you promote here are a result of the society you grew up in, with it's expectations. It's not an absolute science and your "truth" works only in a certain context.
I hang out mostly with my guy friends who are single. My girl friends choose to stay in dead-end relationships. I get to hang out with them only when their guys are not available.
DeleteWhat does sweet look like to a man versus a woman?
ReplyDeleteI saw you made a Twitter post about women wearing makeup to the gym. I've seen 'the gym' being mentioned as somewhere you may meet eligible men many times.
ReplyDeleteI go to the gym in my local area a few times per week. I'm one of those girls who wear makeup, albeit not a LOT. I am 22, have a good figure and wear tight workout wear.
I have never been approached at the gym. I would have loved to be - there are many attractive men there, and it's in my local high-end area - they're well educated and successful guys, often attractive too. Sometimes I think they may be an age group a bit too old and that some of them are married.
I usually get hit on quite a lot in bars. I see your posts about being around men and making yourself attractive to them. I follow all of that advice - I don't think I have a problem with the attractiveness part. I would love to be asked out in any of these scenes (gym, college..), because I feel I would have more of a guarantee that they're the right guys, but I am simply not. I sometimes catch them looking, but they never ever come over.
What is it? Are men too shy during the day? Or are there some things women must specifically do to make themselves approachable in daytime scenarios?
Honestly though, have you asked out a woman at the gym? Is it even worth it to take care of my hair before spin class or wear heels going out in the morning, even to the post office, if men are only going to stare, and never approach? Might I as well just specialize in the bar scene and go casual the rest of the time?
A bar is an environment where social interaction is expected. In a gym, there is a much greater social barrier, since you are seen as doing something that you have set aside a specific amount of time to do, and probably don't want to be bothered. Even if this isn't the case, it is likely enough to be the case that a man can use it as an excuse not to confront his fear of approaching (which exists in bars and gyms) and go talk to you.
DeleteI will elaborate on this in a post soon.
Andrew, what is the most unusual place you have chatted up a girl? I want to try and meet men in places other than bars. That's a bit of a challenge for me.
DeleteI would love to see a post on this topic!
DeleteI just finished the post. It should be up soon.
DeleteThe most unusual place? I haven't really approached too many girls in unusual places... the beach, grocery stores, concerts, trains, gyms, fast food places - all pretty normal.
Ha, actually, you know what? The weirdest place was probably standing in front of a the goat pen at a county fair.
What describe acting like a slut and dressing like a slut ? I think people have their own opinion on it.
ReplyDeleteDo you have any advice for a self-conscious girl?
ReplyDeleteI'm such an overthinking/paranoid person, it is getting on my nerves.
It goes for most my relationships, but ones with men in particular. If I happen to like a guy, I think way too much about what he thinks of me and what I do/say.
I've been dating someone for a while and he is definitely genuinely interested, but I end up over analyzing anyway. We went to dinner not too long ago, and I had enough wine to get a bit tipsy (I never get sloppy drunk, but I do get a lot chattier after a couple of glasses). He had wine too, and he does have a habit of drinking too much, but I am not sure how tipsy he was, because he is extroverted and confident anyway. I woke up the next day and started thinking about what I said, why I mentioned that silly story, and I started to cringe and worry that he doesn't get my sense of humor, perhaps thinking I was serious when I wasn't and so on. I'm hoping perhaps he doesn't remember every detail, but I am also afraid I looked bad.
Another example could be me speaking to a male friend who tells me he works in recruitment and I think he's read my various applications and that I look stupid. I feel as though people are always talking about me.
I don't think people have a bad impression of me generally. I am known as sweet and polite I think, and I do get quite a bit of attention from guys, but I'm afraid that my inhibitions hold my personality back a bit. I'm afraid guys won't get to know the real me or worse yet, that I pull back when I'm afraid he has reason to think badly of me. I usually end up dating someone for a few months but nothing more than that.
Do you have any advice? Other than "relax" :)
It's been interesting reading these blog posts - humorous at times, informative and appalling at others. I read the flesh desires of a boy speaking, similar to a women's emotional lashing out which, when sitting and steady, we would say otherwise. And yet what the writer will soon learn is what has failed to be noticed - the self-control, compromise, honesty and choice to which makes a man. A father. A husband. The self-acceptance and wisdom and choice to cultivate beauty, intelligence, and articulation of word in a myriad of ways - a wife. A mother. Most interesting will be the blog post we read when the writer has met someone who defies every "how-to" and "top 10", every scale and "idea", every do and don't of what "men really want" as this will only pose risk to the beautiful relationship he has found with a woman who not only do not define herself by her figure or hairdo or color makeup scheme or arch of back in bed- for she is beyond what he had in mind and without further ado, we hear one last post: "So I found her. And you won't believe what I have to say--". That's the blog post I want to read.
ReplyDeleteHi Andrew, can you list some female celebrities who might be good examples of women who have those attractive traits (based on how they appear in interviews), so that it'd be easier to visualize how attraction would look like and sound like? Would Blake Lively make a good one? Cos many positive traits, like 'cheerfulness' for example, can have a wide range, e.g. too much of it can make you a 'hyper'.
ReplyDeleteThank you. Funny post and interesting too. However, you guys also have quite a few misconceptions about girls, male and female are two different worlds apart ;) It seems to me, that other than marriage (or marriage equal relationship), and what's more, with kids, there is no way to get rid of the misconceptions.
ReplyDeleteHey, I wanted to know how to determine if you truly love the man, who even if doesn't possess your level of intelligence, still genuinely and deeply loves you for who you are.
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ReplyDelete