A post I made about why women shouldn't take the initiative in relationships evoked some questions about how to deal with shy men - after all, shy men don't chase women, and are unlikely to initiate anything. If a girl doesn't approach or initiate contact with a shy man, nothing will happen. This is true, but handling this situation isn't as simple as you might think...
The first thing to do when you find yourself attracted to a shy man is to question your feelings for him. In other words, ask yourself "Am I attracted in spite of or because of his shyness?"
If you answer these questions sincerely and still want to date him, you then face the problem of making it happen - or rather, making him make it happen.
I used to be shy. My little brother is shy (with girls). A very close friend of mine is extremely shy, and I know plenty of other guys that are shy. For me it is a familiar mindset. Shy guys, almost by definition, do not have the balls to initiate and pursue women. They fall outside of the predator-prey model for sexual interactions that is assumed in the "don't initiate contact" rule. So it is acceptable for you to initiate with a shy guy. But there are a couple caveats...
The problem with male shyness is that it wears off in specific situations. A shy man may never become courageous enough to approach women in general, but he can eventually grow comfortable with a girlfriend or wife. As the fear of the unknown dissipates with increased familiarity, a shy man's confidence in his interactions with you will rise. His masculine instincts will kick in, and in some cases you can end up with a man that acts towards you the same way that a confident man would have acted from the outset.
So, if you do choose to initiate, do so only during the early stages of dating, that is, until he builds his confidence and comfort around you. Once this happens, you will need to gradually assume a less assertive (more traditionally female) role, because he will then be more liable to get bored with you, wonder if he could do better, consider his other options (the perception of which his newly-found confidence will likely inflate), fool around, etc.
The second caveat is that even a shy man has pride. Though he knows his own limitations (as prescribed by his shyness), he also knows what a typical man is "supposed to do." So he recognizes, too, when you are doing it for him. This will offend him if you flaunt it, or if it is evident due simply to the social magnitude of the task you've assumed (for example, if you take his hand and lead him through a crowd). That offense will reflect negatively on you and the relationship. So be careful about how much (and which) initiative you take. Unfortunately there is no quantifiable or simple rule here, as his threshold for embarrassment will vary in proportion to his shyness and his pride, which are different in every man.
So how do you initiate? Well, for starters, in the early stages, you will need to give him blatant signs of your interest. Aside from their innate male tendency to overlook anything that isn't spelled out in black and white, shy men will by default doubt any sign of your affection. The reason for this is that shy men are more concerned with avoiding the social catastrophe of asking you out and failing than they are of getting you. This is what prevents them from taking the initiative in the first place. If they have even the slightest doubt about your intentions they will hold back. So whatever you would normally do to indicate your interest to a confident man, double or triple it for a shy man (in proportion to his shyness):
While I don't suggest that you overtly ask out a shy guy on an "official" date (this would too flagrantly undermine what he knows to be his role as described above), I do suggest that you suggest and then ask him to hang out under casual pretenses. Of course, he will question this over and over in his mind, wondering whether you were asking him to hang out just to be friends, or if you wanted something more. So show him that you want something more - ask repeatedly.
In general, you will need to carry the relationship up until the point that it is "official." When it has been established (or is otherwise clear) that the two of you are together, then you should start reducing your initiative and letting him take the reins. As I said, he will probably start to do this on his own anyway, so rather than forcing it, just be cognizant of the transition. Comments like "Oh, I thought you were going drive/get the tickets/plan the trip/[insert other traditionally masculine roles here]" can help in priming his confidence if it seems to be lagging and it bothers you.
Dating a shy man takes a lot of initial investment for an uncertain outcome. You will probably get frustrated at his lack of response to your initiatives. The biggest problem is that it won't be clear to you whether or not his unresponsiveness is a product of his shyness or his lack of interest in you - because it could be either one. Shy men have taste and standards too. His persistent willingness to hang out with you might be stem from a real interest, but it also might be a manifestation of his unfulfilled desire for female attention; he could just enjoy dabbling in the idea of a relationship but at the same time not like you enough to want anything serious with you. Unfortunately there is no easy way to discern his true intentions without putting yourself on the line over and over again, and seeing how he responds. This can be humiliating, frustrating, even infuriating, and it can ultimately still end in failure. (If nothing else, this will give you good insight into what it is like to be a man.)
While all of this sounds like it might be too difficult to deal with - and many women will come to that conclusion - it is worth pointing out that if you can navigate through the difficult aspects of attracting and dating a shy man, he is likely to be completely faithful to you. Due to the lack of female attention he has attracted or received, he is like an emotional spring that you will release. If you are looking for an abundance of devotion, he has it to give.
So, in conclusion, if you are interested in a shy man, start by questioning that feeling. If his shyness is not a deal-breaker for you, you can initiate, but you need to be careful about striking a balance between sending strong enough signals and not offending his masculine pride. It is a difficult tightrope to walk, but the consolation is that these men rarely receive attention from women, and have a lot of love and devotion to give you.
Related Posts
1. The More Confident He Is, The Less He Likes You
2. Don't Initiate Contact
3. Learn How to Be Social
The first thing to do when you find yourself attracted to a shy man is to question your feelings for him. In other words, ask yourself "Am I attracted in spite of or because of his shyness?"
- If you like him because of his shyness, ask yourself further: why do you find shyness attractive in a man? Is that feeling authentic? Do you like his shyness only because you feel like you can't get a confident man? Do you not mind being more socially powerful than him? Women who are attracted to shy men are sometimes manifesting their need to feel dominance over a man (e.g. because they had an absent or abusive father). Other times they run to shy men after being rejected by a confident one (an "Asshole").
- If you like him in spite of his shyness, ask yourself further: could you respect a shy man? Would you admire him? In 10 years, will you still find it attractive? This is important because you need to know if his shyness will ultimately be an impediment to a serious relationship. If you know - deep down - that you could never be with a man who doesn't have the balls to pursue you, then you shouldn't waste your time with him (or waste his time with you).
If you answer these questions sincerely and still want to date him, you then face the problem of making it happen - or rather, making him make it happen.
I used to be shy. My little brother is shy (with girls). A very close friend of mine is extremely shy, and I know plenty of other guys that are shy. For me it is a familiar mindset. Shy guys, almost by definition, do not have the balls to initiate and pursue women. They fall outside of the predator-prey model for sexual interactions that is assumed in the "don't initiate contact" rule. So it is acceptable for you to initiate with a shy guy. But there are a couple caveats...
The problem with male shyness is that it wears off in specific situations. A shy man may never become courageous enough to approach women in general, but he can eventually grow comfortable with a girlfriend or wife. As the fear of the unknown dissipates with increased familiarity, a shy man's confidence in his interactions with you will rise. His masculine instincts will kick in, and in some cases you can end up with a man that acts towards you the same way that a confident man would have acted from the outset.
So, if you do choose to initiate, do so only during the early stages of dating, that is, until he builds his confidence and comfort around you. Once this happens, you will need to gradually assume a less assertive (more traditionally female) role, because he will then be more liable to get bored with you, wonder if he could do better, consider his other options (the perception of which his newly-found confidence will likely inflate), fool around, etc.
The second caveat is that even a shy man has pride. Though he knows his own limitations (as prescribed by his shyness), he also knows what a typical man is "supposed to do." So he recognizes, too, when you are doing it for him. This will offend him if you flaunt it, or if it is evident due simply to the social magnitude of the task you've assumed (for example, if you take his hand and lead him through a crowd). That offense will reflect negatively on you and the relationship. So be careful about how much (and which) initiative you take. Unfortunately there is no quantifiable or simple rule here, as his threshold for embarrassment will vary in proportion to his shyness and his pride, which are different in every man.
So how do you initiate? Well, for starters, in the early stages, you will need to give him blatant signs of your interest. Aside from their innate male tendency to overlook anything that isn't spelled out in black and white, shy men will by default doubt any sign of your affection. The reason for this is that shy men are more concerned with avoiding the social catastrophe of asking you out and failing than they are of getting you. This is what prevents them from taking the initiative in the first place. If they have even the slightest doubt about your intentions they will hold back. So whatever you would normally do to indicate your interest to a confident man, double or triple it for a shy man (in proportion to his shyness):
- If you would touch him lightly on the arm for 1.5 seconds, hold the contact for 4 or 5 seconds.
- If you would hold eye contact with a confident man for 2 seconds to show him that you are interested, hold a shy man's gaze for 3 or 4 seconds, or do it repeated times.
- If you would normally drop a single verbal hint that you'd like to hang out sometime, do it three times before expecting anything from a shy man.
- If you would normally expect a kiss on the second date from a confident man, wait until at least fifth or sixth to be kissed by a shy man - and in fact, you should probably just make this move yourself.
While I don't suggest that you overtly ask out a shy guy on an "official" date (this would too flagrantly undermine what he knows to be his role as described above), I do suggest that you suggest and then ask him to hang out under casual pretenses. Of course, he will question this over and over in his mind, wondering whether you were asking him to hang out just to be friends, or if you wanted something more. So show him that you want something more - ask repeatedly.
In general, you will need to carry the relationship up until the point that it is "official." When it has been established (or is otherwise clear) that the two of you are together, then you should start reducing your initiative and letting him take the reins. As I said, he will probably start to do this on his own anyway, so rather than forcing it, just be cognizant of the transition. Comments like "Oh, I thought you were going drive/get the tickets/plan the trip/[insert other traditionally masculine roles here]" can help in priming his confidence if it seems to be lagging and it bothers you.
Dating a shy man takes a lot of initial investment for an uncertain outcome. You will probably get frustrated at his lack of response to your initiatives. The biggest problem is that it won't be clear to you whether or not his unresponsiveness is a product of his shyness or his lack of interest in you - because it could be either one. Shy men have taste and standards too. His persistent willingness to hang out with you might be stem from a real interest, but it also might be a manifestation of his unfulfilled desire for female attention; he could just enjoy dabbling in the idea of a relationship but at the same time not like you enough to want anything serious with you. Unfortunately there is no easy way to discern his true intentions without putting yourself on the line over and over again, and seeing how he responds. This can be humiliating, frustrating, even infuriating, and it can ultimately still end in failure. (If nothing else, this will give you good insight into what it is like to be a man.)
While all of this sounds like it might be too difficult to deal with - and many women will come to that conclusion - it is worth pointing out that if you can navigate through the difficult aspects of attracting and dating a shy man, he is likely to be completely faithful to you. Due to the lack of female attention he has attracted or received, he is like an emotional spring that you will release. If you are looking for an abundance of devotion, he has it to give.
So, in conclusion, if you are interested in a shy man, start by questioning that feeling. If his shyness is not a deal-breaker for you, you can initiate, but you need to be careful about striking a balance between sending strong enough signals and not offending his masculine pride. It is a difficult tightrope to walk, but the consolation is that these men rarely receive attention from women, and have a lot of love and devotion to give you.
Related Posts
1. The More Confident He Is, The Less He Likes You
2. Don't Initiate Contact
3. Learn How to Be Social
Thank you for this! I broke off an engagement last fall and just started dating again and the man I am currently interested in is very shy. I actually really appreciate it because it is kind of nice to not have to ease back into it. I have been wondering, since I met the new guy, whether I should initiate early on or if he ever would.
ReplyDeleteThis is good stuff. I would say that the shy man who is not starting to initiate after a while is not shy at all, but truly fearful and weak. Women need to recognize the difference, because a weak man will not satisfy them, and will be prone to angry outbursts from holding in his thoughts, feelings, and wants most of the time.
ReplyDeleteWhile you may be right about some shy men being weak, many of us have been trained all of our lives, by our mothers and others, to not be bold, instead to be courteous and unoffensive. When you combine all of our years of being told not to be aggressive around girls, with being introverted, then you get guys who aren't aggressive around girls. Many of us are now learning,through game, that everything that we have been told, all our lives, is wrong.
DeleteSome men are weak, and some were successfully trained to not be bold. When you call all shy guys fearful and weak, all that you are doing is encouraging some to forget about girls altogether, because you are not worth the effort.
You may look down on those of us who need to learn what to do later in life, but in doing so you will be missing out on the majority of men, many of whom, you may have been happy with. And unless you're one the the most attractive women yourself, having a naturally bold guy is a long shot for you.
Hi Tim, I wasn't the commenter but I think nice guys are great... I hate all things game. I don't know everything there is to know, but I know a few things, and if guys start using them on me I write them off immediately. Like negs (putting a girl down in some way) for example, not sure if you know what they are. Because I get a lot of attention from guys, some men will try that on me to distinguish themselves, and I'm never more repulsed. That just works on really insecure girls. I would love nice guys to stay the way they are, and be genuine. Just put themselves out a little more, if they are shy. But not change being unoffensive and courteous. Don't ever change that. Please.
DeleteHi Tim, I agree with above comment, secure, smart women that come from healthy homes like yours will recognize you as a genuine person and great catch. The more women mature, the more they see this. The smartest ones see it early. I saw your comment and hope that this really is 'the majority of men'? If this is true, I hope to meet a guy like you soon. Don't change.
Delete@Anonymous at 5:01
DeleteFrom what I can tell you don't know much about game. I don't mean to sound mean by pointing that out, it just seems to be true.
Note that much of what is said at game websites is to encourage and help men to become better men.
My favorite game blogger wrote a post that summed up how a man should get better at interacting with women.
http://www.rooshv.com/everything-i-know-about-women
The summary of the post is that he says that a man should, talk to women, read lots of books, lift weights, learn a foreign language, and travel.
All of those things work to help men to become better men.
There are many other game websites, and while some complaints against women are made, much of what exists there is to guide men to becoming better men.
Before you claim to hate everything about game, I would encourage you to read NexxtLevelUp and see what you think about their articles on food, clothing, travel, and fitness. You might be surprised at what you see there.
http://nexxtlevelup.com/
What you seem to have focused on for game, negs, is but one small aspect of game. And its a small aspect that no one would have heard of if using them had no success.
In any case, many guys know next to nothing about interacting with girls. We have been told all of our lives things that are wrong. And lots of us are trying anything we can find in order to get better.
Andrew wrote a post a while ago that talked about negs. If a guy negs you, even badly, then take it as a sign that he is interested in you and does not know how to go about talking to you. Try and encourage them to do the things that you like, rather than be offended.
As much as I hate to throw blame around, rather than be productive with my words, I have to say that the push to make women "equal" to men is what has caused a lack of courtesy. Women in the west have decided to reward guys who are rough and offensive, and the guys who are nice and courteous finish last.
@Anonymous at 6:09
"will recognize you as a genuine person and great catch."
If comments like this didn't come from ignorance about what men's life was like, then many guys would take offense at them.
You do not understand how truly awful your whole comment seems to guys that were not naturally good with girls.
When I was younger, I was the nice, polite, courteous guy. Everyone appreciated how nice I was. And my results with girls were absolutely zero.
I was no scrawny nerd, or fat gross loser. I was as average and had as many friends as anybody. But when I talked to girls, I was happy when they tuned me down with something other than "I have a boyfriend." Even when they ignored me, at least they were turning me down in a different way.
There is an article written by a guy who looks at his social interaction after his divorce. He went 12 years as an involuntary celibate.
I would link to it and I would explain many of the faults in your comment, but I do not want to scare you away with the truth. I don't think that you could handle it.
"If this is true, I hope to meet a guy like you soon. Don't change."
You don't know how many girls have said this, and when I made the attempt for a date, or whatever, I got nothing, zero, nothing at all.
I almost wonder if those two sentences were meant to inflict pain.
But never mind about my past personal lack of social success.
Do continue to read this website and do what it says. Most of what is written here is exactly correct.
And if a guy goes out of his way to talk to you, then help him out. It is incredibly difficult to learn social skills.
Tim;
DeleteI am replying to your comments to the earlier post. I feel emotional reading it, but I don't have a magic bullet, and I'm a little stilted when it comes to writing. So please don't get frustrated with my response. I'm just letting you know I do know a little about game, and I read the link you posted. The self improvement aspects do work- being well read, traveling, dressing hip, cooking, having a cool friends, nice apartment and in being in shape will make you more attractive to EVERYBODY, women, teachers, co-workers, kids, strangers, old people etc... that's not a game, it is just basic, requisite self improvement. Setting goals is fun, and you reap all the benefits. Not really 'work' at all. Human nature likes to run on inertia and wait around, so the go-getters (men and women) always seem more attractive, to everybody. Fair and square. A story. It will read superficial, since I'm not including emotional connection aspects of story, just a basic topline to make a point. I dated alphas in my twenties, and then met someone different. He was a super skinny guy who was a foreigner, sweet and smart, but younger than me, slightly immature, not hip or stylish. We started spending all our free time together, got close. My friends told me that I was selling myself short, making a poor decision, some even stopped talking to me. I put him through Alpha Boot Camp, (not a real thing of course, Sex and the City calls this situation a fixer upper). I encouraged him to him to get in shape (weights and cardio), changed his hairstyle, hygiene, products, and upgraded his entire wardrobe- both the fit and the brand names, right down to the watch, phone, socks and underwear (like Andrew's advice- that gets into minutia- for physical improvement :) , basically, got him several standard deviations above his start point to HOT in a short time. Then he bought an expensive car, got a high paying job,.... and started cheating like crazy. Ha!
Girls don't always get a reward for playing nice or doing the right thing either. We are taught to stop going for jerks and pick a good guy who will appreciate us. My story didn't end in happy ever after for altruistic behavior and acts of kindness. His confidence was through the roof. Women sending naked pictures of themselves, showing up on my doorstep, whining "I love you more than her" !? So, yes, I know this stuff works- apparently so well it turns men (he was a five then a ten) into cocky jerks.
So, back to you. It sounds like you are trying to connect with women and feel like they are hard to figure out. It sounds like you are basically a great, normal person,- awesome! And, that should be enough. I agree, it should! It's great if you feel you are learning something new from these sites, but some of them sound creepy, lots of deliberate fakery, they make it sound like women are creatures from a different planet. You don't have far to go, it's probably right around the corner. Without knowing you at all, I could just guess from your short post-you might just need a little more - 'edge' since young girls really like that. Or, date an older woman. Or a shy woman who has average social skills. Lots of options. Just know- there are also many blogs for women who go for months or years without decent or successful relationships- they start to obsess about figuring men out as well. It shouldn't be this hard. But it some how is? Oh well. Off to feed the cats and watch my shows. tee hee hee.
"Girls don't always get a reward for playing nice or doing the right thing either. We are taught to stop going for jerks and pick a good guy who will appreciate us. My story didn't end in happy ever after for altruistic behavior and acts of kindness. "
DeleteAltruistic and acts of kindness? Don't kid yourself, everything you did to change that guy, you did for *you* because you were not happy with the way he was and wanted a more alpha male. Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it and it isn't always what you expected.
The person being put through "Alpha Boot Camp" isn't stupid and knows what you are doing (and saying). Which is - you are not good enough for me as you are and I'd like to change you. As a female who has be subjected to this from countless males I can tell you this - the longer it goes on the more I lose interest in the guy. It is disheartening to be with someone who is constantly telling you you are not good enough the way you are. And, make no mistake, that is what you are saying.
@ Tim - I wonder if the inability to get a date with a woman is not due to being a "nice guy", but rather from being a know-it-all.
DeleteHere is a question for you I have been mulling over for some time. Would like to have your input.
ReplyDeleteThere have been occasions where I have been out with a group and will be speaking with a man, either by his initiation or my own, or just by consequence of how the group conversation has gone.
Anyway, this conversation will progress and it's usually about whatever the group meeting is about, whether it's movies, or art, or whatever. It's not ever romantic related.
The evening will end and I will go home. Then later receive an email from the guy to whom I was speaking, asking me on a date.
The thing is - I am in a long-term relationship. And then when I tell them this, the guy will get upset and ask "Why didn't you tell me this?"
My response thus far has been "Because you didn't ask!"
Honestly, how can I let the guy know this, that I am involved, without PRESUMING, because these are group outings that do not involve dating. I don't want to automatically assume that the guy is hitting on me just because he's talking to me about some movie he saw or piece of music he heard because I have these same conversations with other women and men, and that's all it is - it's just talking and sharing ideas. At times I have "name dropped" and mentioned my SO in the conversation, but that feels artificial and, frankly, presumptuous.
So any ideas?
Yes, two: (a) don't be naive about why a man is singling you out for conversation. He doesn't just want to b friends. And (b) don't be upset by his reaction when he finds out. Realize that he isn't really blaming you so much as he is venting after being disappointed.
DeleteIt's also pretty easy to drop in that you have a bf. As simple as, "Oh yeah, my boyfriend and I went and saw that film" or "my boyfriend thinks that..." Not in a showy way, just in a nonchalant, matter-of-fact way.
DeleteHere's a question - how do they have your email address if you didn't give it to them? 1) You may be naive enough to not know he's flirting with you (although that's a bit surprising), but are you really naive enough to give him your contact info and not know; 2)honestly, if I was your boyfriend and I found out you were giving guys you met out and about your contact info, I'd be pissed. What exactly did you expect to come from it?
In my opinion, the universal sign for "I'm hitting on you" is can I get your phone number/email.
Agreed that it never comes off as presumptuous if a girl mentions that she has a boyfriend tactfully. Though if she does it too obviously (i.e. right away in the conversation or by interrupting the natural course of the conversation), it does seem presumptuous - not because she assumes I am interested - I am - but because she assumes I am SO interested that she needs to get it out there ASAP.
DeleteIt's an internet meetup group - so anyone can anonymously contact a member of the group.
DeleteAnd thanks Andrew - that's what I've usually done is drop a name when it's appropriate in the conversation. It still feels a bit awkward though but if that's what needs to be done then that's what I'll continue to do.
Internet meetup groups are well known for being a way to meet up with other singles. So, that being said, I would make it a point to casually mention your boyfriend if you are talking to an unknown male for more than a few moments.
DeleteAlso, as a woman, I find it odd that you would have conversations long enough to warrant being asked for a date and not once mention your SO. All the females I know, married or in a relationship, myself included, usually mention their SO often. It's not that they are flaunting it - it is just that their SO is such a big part of their life, someone important to them, that they respect and take pride in, and think about often that it is natural for them to mention him.
"What did you do this weekend?" "Oh, Neil and I went to see a movie."
It's completely natural to mention your SO when you have one. I rather think it is more odd to not mention your SO and something you are making an effort to do, if he really is important to you.
My SO and I have been together for 10 years but we are not attached at the hip and don't share the same brain. It makes no sense to me to mention him when talking about art or a play he did not see or literature he did not read.
DeleteAndrew, I have the opposite problem.
DeleteI consider myself very outgoing and chatty with strangers. I find that when talking to bank tellers, cashiers, grocery store guys, they often mention their girlfriends early on in conversation and we are talking about a neutral subject (cost of item, sale, what isle X is in) . Is this a sign that they think I am hitting on them?
AnonymousLilly
Anonymous in the meetup group: get yourself a fake ring. That'll stop men from getting the wrong idea. If your SO of 10 years asks about it, tell him you're trying to prevent other guys from hitting on you.
DeleteYou should be able to talk to anyone without them presuming you are available for a date. If they get upset that you are in a relationship, that is their problem.
DeleteOh my god, ALL THE TIME, dudes talking, hanging out, never mentioning their girlfriends...I feel like guys never mention their SO's.. This has happened to me so many times, where we hang out a number of times and then on a group outing it turns out he has a girlfriend. Am I supposed to directly ask all the time? It feels so horrible.
DeleteThere was a shy guy I used to like a while ago. I tried the things you suggested in your post. I was a little 'extra' with showing interest ect and while it worked to an extent I just couldn't continue on. That was when I realized preferred more traditionally masculine(confidant) men. It drove me crazy not knowing if his reciprocity was born of genuine interest of lack of options. No one wants to feel like a consolation prize and thats what it felt like for me. Whether it was true or not doesn't matter because it made ME feel that way.
ReplyDeleteGosh I know the feeling. I thought I could handle it and that it wasn't a big deal and it really got to me... I ended up ending things
DeleteI recently went out with an extremely shy guy. He took me out three times and we didn't even kiss because I wanted him to make the move. He was cute but his personality was not "sexy" at all. I would have continued going out with him because he made a lot of money and I figured what it written in the blog - that he would eventually become confident. I will never know why he didn't ask me out again. If he was too shy to deal with me and just wanted to hide at home playing video games or if he just wasn't that into me.
ReplyDeleteThe lesson I am taking from this is to not settle because it's a blow to your ego when you get rejected by a guy you thought you were too good for in the first place. If I'm going to get rejected, I'd rather it be someone I'm really into. Even if it hurts more.
Yeah this is a good case of putting in the initial investment only to find out that he thinks he can do better, and ending up empty-handed and taking a self-esteem hit.
DeleteI think a lot of women instantaneously correlate the quality of shyness to "niceness" when in fact there are questionable shy men just as there are questionable confident men. At least you can respect the overt manner in which a confident man may display his assholishness..if present. Either way it's good to go in with your eyes and your ears open irregardless of personality type.
DeleteYes there are nice genuinely shy men and there are inexperienced insecure men.Ive made the mistake of giving the second type a chance only to discover they were rude or obnoxious and didnt know how to be civil or courteous to a girl.
DeleteIm a little shy myself so I feel more comfortable if the guy makes the initial moves.I don't know if its that easy to shift dynamics in a relationship, if they feel you did all the chasing then they will always expect you to do so.It sets up a relationship where the woman ends up more dominant over the guy and then wishes she wasn't.
I have a male friend who is the archetypal shy guy, he lives alone with a cat and dresses like a geek,he gets into relationships mainly from online dating and will go along with everything the girl asks,such as lets meet my family, lets go on holiday together,etc etc but he has no intention of dating these girls for longer than 6-7 months.Shy guys can be as much trouble as any guy.
You never know if someone is taking you out for practice. Everyone should be confident, but approach with a humble heart lest you find out you were helping them get back into the game.
ReplyDeletevery helpful, thank you for this!
ReplyDeleteIf there is one thing I have learned in my 33 years of dating men it is this - if he likes you he will show it. You won't have to guess at it. Yes, there are different levels of liking, but ask yourself what level you want from the guy you are dating?
ReplyDeleteNever initiate. Why? Because if he likes you enough, you won't have to. And... this goes for shy guys too. I don't care how shy a guy is, if he likes you enough, he will finally get up enough guts to ask you out.
I once was interested in a shy man. I tried for a while to get him to ask me out. I got tired of it quickly. I'm very feminine and need a manly man to balance that out. He did like me. That I know. The thing was, he didn't like me *enough*. His desire to avoid rejection was greater than his desire for me. And, that, unfortunately isn't a high enough liking for me to be satisfied.
^^ I totally agree with this point AND Andrew's post. Anecdotal story to prove all of the points: My boyfriend of now 2.5 years was shy. He asked me out once when we were 16 and once when we were 17 and I said no. Probably because when he asked he was so unassertive about it. (Andrew's point that it's hard to be truly attracted to shy guys). I "friend zoned" him so to speak.
DeleteFast forward to when we were 19: I accidently get blackout drunk and start crying about something ridiculous. I ask him to lie down with me and comfort me (so he tells me, like I said the night is pretty foggy). This is the "blatant showing of interest" part. Although I was not actively interested, I really did just want comfort (and he knew that), but it gave him an opportunity where he wouldn't be embarrassed if I said no (black out drunk, pretend it didn't happen sort of thing)....Anyway, he asks if he can kiss me and I say yes (and yes just a kiss) and then we fall asleep. A couple hours later I wake up, realize what happened, and quickly go to my own bed. Oh god, this is so awkward, why did I do that. I really hope he never mentions it and we pretend it didn't happen.
But of course he does. He says, "I don't know if you remember but we kissed last night". I say "Yeah, I remember" and quickly change the subject....Then the next morning as I'm leaving (we were on a two night trip with other people) he asks me to be his girlfriend. I said "no" again. But this time, unlike the others, he persisted. (Point that shy guys will eventually overcome their shyness if they really want you) He said he wanted me to at least think about it. I agreed to this, with the full intention of "thinking about it" as in thinking about how to let him down gently. However, during my week of "thinking about it" something changed and I decided to give him a chance. If he had not persisted (read: been confident and overcame his shyness) we wouldn't be dating today.
Fast forward 2.5 years later and he's on his way to visit me as we speak (4.5 hours in the car and counting), as he has been doing every other weekend since we started dating. And he's bringing two surprises :p ( point about shy guys having a lot of devotion).
The one part of the post I might disagree on is the "blatant show if interest". I wouldn't blatantly show interest as this will make him value her less. I would say she should hang out with him as friends and let his interest grow until it is enough that he will overcome his shyness. Once she think he likes her enough, then she should provide safe opportunities to ask her out if she can find them. Safe opportunities= get really drunk (or pretend to be) so if she says no he can pretend like it never happened. LOL probably not the best gameplan for a classy gal, but I can't think of any other ways right now.
"Safe opportunities = get really drunk (or pretend to be) so if she says no he can pretend like it never happened."
Deletehahah awsome
Anonymous at 10:59 AM,
DeleteIf you never initiate or give him a more obvious clue, a shy guy will just think that you aren't interested in him. I used to think that there was a sign when a girl likes a guy, but there really isn't. Real life isn't like the movies where the girl flirts like crazy and makes it really obvious. The girl just smiles and waits for the guy. And the girl doesn't initiate because she feels like a manly guy would do that or she doesn't want to look too easy even if she really is. A lot of guys don't understand this.
A lot of guys are also afraid of doing something wrong and seeming creepy.
I am one of the most SHY guys out there, and it kills me. Most people "think" I'm stuck on myself due to I'm shy, I'm however very friendly people tell me Im attractive and have a nice body and etc. But to walk up to any lady who isnt fat or has a low self esteem and not be off some long island I dont see it happening. I hate the chase of the whole game. If it wasnt for online dating I'd be lost trying to get a mail order bride.***NOTE** the very old school books would say women make the first move, which back then was to drop her hankerchif/tissue so the guy will see and pick it up and start conversation there. I got to the point where I dont even look anymore,why? because even if we do make eye contact, Im still going to expect some clear sign its cool for me to try to talk without being rejected and vice versa for her Im sure. let me just be very clear, if your a woman, you can just about have ANY guy YOU chose. Well, just wanted to add my two cents, missing a lot of good times with someone over fear....oh well LOL rather have fear than being rejected, internet porn will never turn me down or not give me what I want. Internet porn is keeping people apart, there's no work to do, no spending money, no phone calls saying what you like and etc. Just get to the point like guys want.
DeleteYes, it's true a woman can "get" any man she chooses... but that is for ONE NIGHT ONLY.
DeleteAfter that he usually dumps her.
So it's not really true a good looking woman can "have" any man she wants, she actually, truly can't.
Signed
tall blue eyed blonde
-00-
I don't even know any shy men. This is so not interesting to me. Please post female game for women in their thirties can't wait thanks! :)
ReplyDelete1. Look good
Delete2. Find out where the appropriate guys are
3. Go there often
4. Be: sweet, quiet, nice, dress well
5. Don't: be loud, complain about everything
Ssomeone has to do it. From my own experience, as a woman, the classiest way to ask a man out is to do it directly, confidently and casually. If he says 'no' just be like this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdBkub5OuzU
It's through the dating process that you'll then be able to know whether you've bagged Mr. Right or not. It's all about having your wits about you - don't continually date a lame donkey and taking risks. Life's far too short to always live it by the books plus the most interesting life stories come from people who dare to take risks.
I also believe that once your in a relationship you should continue to take risks with your partner - reminding them why they fell in love with you. Anyway that's my two cents on the topic.
I say rather go for the late blooming, formerly shy guy. My boyfriend met me shortly after going through this transition (which was helped in large part by serving in the military). Though slightly naive (only at first) about how to treat women, he has a lot of appreciation for me and is always open and wanting to learn more. He developed very impressive interests/hobbies/personality in the years when most guys were fucking everything that moved, and now he is a hard-working, confident, sexy man.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very interesting post......I had a very shy guy persue me!!
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize he was socially awkward until I saw how he interacted with others. He was totally fine when he was around me....had some alpha moves as well.
I haven't read any if the comments but sometimes the "shy guy" has something to hide (he is not into you or has a baby/wife somewhere else). As a woman and reader of relationship forums I KNOW that women tend to turn most guys into "shy guys" in there heads, whether true or fantasy.
ReplyDeleteAlso to the men, Andrew's tips apply tenfold to shy/social dynamically distant women,as well (i.e. INTJ women). Obviously you could just ask her out and then we (shy women) will get it, but hints, flirtations, or other social dynamic cues do not work and/or hugely questioned to death that you will likely stop like her before she realizes it in the first place.
I agree with this. Some will label a man as shy when the very obvious reality is that he isn't interested. Like Andrew said, even shy guys have their "types" and standards. Just because a guy is so-called shy and doesn't get as much attention from women doesn't mean he is going to through that out the wind for so ass. It happens but it wont end well for the woman.
DeleteLOL at INTJ women. I'm INTJ and I do the same. The funny thing is most of my friends would describe me as social/outgoing, however when it comes to men Im a bit spastic and quintuple guess just abut everything. He pretty much has to directly ask for a date or try to kiss me before I get the message. If a guy flirts with me I just dismiss it as friendliness or my own projection. Not the best thing to do when you are looking for a boyfriend...
*Just because a guy is so-called shy and doesnt get as much attention from women doesnt mean he is going to THROW that out of the WINDOW for SOME ass*
DeleteHehehehe I do the same thing... I'm absolutely oblivious unless someone directly asks me out... Lately guys have been asking for numbers through my friend/sister... I had no idea there was even any interest.
DeleteThis explains why cougars are so successful right now.
ReplyDeleteThey are not hitting on Alphas but cute to good looking, much younger, super SHY guys that don't get attention from girls their age. This post explains a lot.
AnonymousLilly
Cougars are successful because young men are horny and aren't about to turn down a free ride. I don't think there's anything deeper going on.
DeleteThere is not enough assertive men to go around! I guess I might have to try my hands at shy guys.
ReplyDeleteOther situations you can find yourself in
1. Guy A asks you out, but then asks you to pick the place and activity.
2. Guy B is not very social and you find yourself carrying most of the conversation. He continues asking you to other dates and same thing occurs.
3. Your dating Guy C, a cute guy who could look better with wardrobe change. You change his clothes or help him with his confidence, now more women find him attractive and flirt with him.
AnonymousLilly
Andrew-I disagree with what you suggest women put themselves through to get a "shy" guy. This puts an ureasonable burden on women. People should be smart enough to know that there are risks in life, some worth taking. If you like someone and want to ask them out, just do it! If you get turned down, at least you know and can move on. I have a huge amount of respect for men (and women) who take those risks. Engaging in the game you propose is an unfair burden for women.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a really informative practical post about the realities of dating a shy or introverted guy. I just have one issue: "Women who are attracted to shy men are sometimes manifesting their need to feel dominance over a man."
ReplyDeleteI think that statement accurately captures the nature of attraction to shy men, but I think its misleading to ASSUME that a woman would feel this attraction because of psychological damage like an abusive father. In my experience, some very Type A/"masculine energy" women are attracted to shy or passive men because they realize (consciously or not) that type of a guy is their natural male counterpart.
I have a friend who is a very blunt, analytic/agressive, and career oriented by her very nature. She often says "I talk a lot and I don't like not getting my way. I need someone who lets me do what I want and me chill out..."...and those type of men are generally interested in her as well. I personally think it's healthy that she realizes that about herself, rather than pining after equally "alpha" men who she'd probably butt heads with often. Forcing herself to be submissive and more traditionally feminine, she'd be unhappy as well. Sometimes the women making this choice are just self aware enough to realize what they need from a relationship.
Great post! My fella was incredibly shy. We are both in our early thirties and he has never asked a girl out due to his shyness. When we met he was a client where I worked. After a few months of interacting I knew I really liked him and wanted things to go further. I gave him lots of signals but knew because he was so shy coupled with the fact work was involved i figured i would need to initiate. One friday evening i very casually asked him what he was doing later and mentioned I had some friends at the pub around the corner and he was welcome to join us. He agreed and whilst that first night was terribly hard for him - unknown social situation, meeting my friends and us getting to know each other better - he got through it just fine. My friends even mentioned to me afterwards that he seemed incredibly nervous. The very next week he asked me out for a drink and that night asked me to date him, it was so cute. I did also make the first move physically but he pretty quickly became confident with me and as he is naturally quite a masculine guy everything is working out perfectly!
ReplyDeletePersist with the shy guys ladies, its the best relationship I've ever had.
waste of time to initiate with a "shy man", IMO.
ReplyDeleteI think shyness is just one of the many characteristics that we need to consider. As long as the guy is capable of communicating and his feelings and thoughts, after breaking the ice, then he is definitely worthy of my time. I meet mostly confident and assertive men in my circles, and they are not necessarily the best candidates for relationships. My recent episode with a confident, flamboyant man ended when I realized that he did not have much going beneath that fabulous front. All I am saying is that we should not rule out any guy based on shyness alone.
ReplyDeleteHi Andrew, I hope it's okay I ask for your advice on a less than relevant post:
ReplyDeleteRecently, my boyfriend told me he was lonely. He lives far away and it wouldn't have been practical for either of us to drive over to see the other since it was a week night (I still offered to do so anyway but he declined), so I offered to go online and talk to him. He was reluctant to say anything about what was going on (he rarely tells me he's lonely so I knew something was up). Eventually I just asked if something was bothering him, and then he said yes and spilled...
I’m the first person he’s been in a real relationship with (we're both 24 and have been dating for about 6 months). He said that he's not sure what it feels like to love someone and he doesn't know if he loves me, but he wants to see if he can "feel more." Apparently he feels somewhat "detached" from those close to him and guilty for not feeling more towards others in his life (including but not limited to just me). And he made it a point to say he cares a lot about me and is not "breaking up with" me “or anything.” I reassured him he had nothing to feel guilty for, and that he's a very good boyfriend, friend, son, etc. I asked him whether what he felt was a need for reassurance or perhaps disappointment and he said he's still trying to get his thoughts together. He thanked me multiple times (including a text later in the night) for talking to him openly about it, saying it made him feel better. For the record, he is indeed sometimes emotionally distant, but almost always very affectionate (sometimes to the point that it’s too much for me) and sexually attracted to me. He is very helpful and thoughtful when he’s around me.
I have this gut feeling that maybe he's just bored with me or wondering what else is out there. This may or may not be related, but he mentioned the other day that he thinks he may go through a mid-life crisis one day because he's been too much of an adult most of his life. I'm not sure whether or not I'm over-analyzing here, so I'd appreciate if you can give me any feedback from your insight as to what may be going on.
It sounds like he likes you but doesn't feel a spark. I would be willing to bet that this ends in him breaking up with you. I have been there many times, and I have said stuff exactly like that to girls when I was 24 (these days I don't get to the point of dating them for 6 months because I can see that coming early on).
DeleteThe fact that he was open enough with you to tell you this is good, and I don't think you are wrong to analyze it. It isn't impossible that he will change his tune, but I think it is improbable. I suggest dating him for another month to see what happens, but then bringing this up with him again if he doesn't bring it up himself. If his feelings haven't changed but he wants to stay in the relationship at that point, I'd tell him that you'd prefer to spend your time dating someone who is a little more convinced of his attraction to you. I think this will be your authentic preference at that point anyway.
Thanks... That makes a lot of sense, but I'd like to add that I talked a little more later with him, and he made a point to say he wants to be with me. He feels a deep sadness when we're apart and wonders if that's what love is. I responded that I think love is just a deep connection, and the rest is subjective... He said he feels we are deeply connected "more than any other couple I've met. I really mean that."
DeleteDo you think what you said earlier still applies after this?
Thanks again. (: You are very insightful
I think his feelings of sadness come from him being lonely and he's associating his loneliness with you.
DeleteA lot of guys don't know anything about making the first move. You need to tell him that you're interested in him. Women don't have to be completely passive. If you're going on a date and neither of you are sure that it's a date, get some clarification.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I was in lust with a guy and apparently he was interested as well, but he had major issues communicating that to me. Fortunately we are still friends, but I think Andrew is wrong on some level for suggesting there is no spark. I think if a guy can get to the point where he is clear rather than confusing about his desires, especially when a girl is clearly interested, the initial doubt about spark can be eliminated. I just got off of the phone with a girlfriend. The guy told her they were friends, which she went along with, but then he kept taking things to the borderline of more than friends. His actions completely confused her. I know them both and they are perfect for each other. He is bad about communication and she is just going along with his declaration that they are friends. My advice to her was that she tell him and be clear because she'll feel better about asking rather than not.
DeleteI've just been through an experience like your girlfriends. Thankfully I stuck to my instincts and it seems finally we're onto something. I've found this website a real eye opener on the shy male mind. http://howtogettheshyguy.tumblr.com/
Delete"I used to be shy"
ReplyDeleteAround what age did this turn around?
I'm 23 and I still suffer from a mild social anxiety. I'm good-looking and take well care of myself - although it results in guys hitting on me, it makes me even more self conscious in public, as people are staring. Heels and tight outfits make me even more self aware. I have come to realize some think of me as the "hot girl in college", and although I do aim for it in one way, I also dread going to school.
My introversion and difficulties with large groups have caused problems several times. I have many interests and am open after a few drinks - I know men have been impressed with my cultural knowledge, but it takes a lot for me to open up to new people. I can deal with one on one conversation, but I completely freeze if we're 4 people or more.
Are you planning more posts on this? I read the "Learn how to be social". But I think some of your personal experience would be useful, as it seems you were shy and less confident before.
You sound like me. I'd like to hear how Andrew broke out of his shell too.
DeleteI'd be happy to share with you in an e-mail, but there is a lot to say and some personal information involved. Shoot me an e-mail referencing this comment and I will explain.
DeleteI'm dating a guy who's bit shy. Although I don't think he is shy in general, I believe he lacks confidence around ME. He is very careful about making a move. I know he's keen (feeling his pants harden when I hug him...) but just getting to the point of holding me takes so so long.
ReplyDeleteI don't usually go for shy guys, but this guy isn't the typical wallflower. He is generally outgoing, he was an excellent student and is very good at his job. He's well liked, he appears to be a morally good man and I think he was raised to treat women very "respectfully". He is a lot more forward and dominant when he's tipsy/getting drunk. He's sometimes called me when he's drunk confessing that he thinks I'm "so amazing". Don't mean to sound up myself, but I have an idea he might think I'm out of his league, as the girls he dated before weren't that good looking.
I'm generally very passive and not great at expressing emotions so when I realized I'd been cold, I initiated contact a while back. He immediately asked when he could see me and we went for drinks. During texting he always asks questions as to keep the conversation going. But now it's been quiet for a while. I really don't know whether to wait or if I risk losing a guy who's just a bit insecure? How do you know these things? Because I really don't consider him a guy with no spine or a loser, I just get the impression that he needs a lot of reassurance from a woman. Should I really just wait and cut my losses if I don't hear anything?
He sounds genuinely interested in you,if he is as shy as you describe him to be then you could initiate contact. It could be that with some reassurance on your part he will take a more assertive approach.
DeleteMaybe just start by telling him how much you enjoy his company,just be nice and see if he opens up a bit.Hopefully once he gains more confidence around you, he will take the lead.Good luck!
I did initiate - he was out of the country, but sounded really excited to hear from me as I usual. I told him to let me know if he wanted to see me when he gets back. If he doesn't, I'll just have to forget about it and start looking for someone else. If his insecurities are keeping him from initiating with me even after I have, what hope is there?
DeleteAnonymous -- I am in the exact same situation. In fact, your description (of the guy and also of your own behavior) could not be more identical. How did the initiation pan out? I'm also hesitant to put more on the line, but very interested in the guy and curious about the potential for more.
DeleteIs there a way that we as women can encourage men to be less shy and more confident?
ReplyDeleteThere is a man who really likes me and wants to date me. I was initially attracted to him and thought that there was potential. He is sweet to me, and treats me very well.
One-on-one we have good conversations and enjoy each other’s company. But as soon as it comes to a group, or even just one other person coming into the conversation he retreats. (Actually I have seen him disengage and physically take steps back out of the conversation.) I know that this is in large part because of language barriers. He does not think his English is very good and gets really nervous that people will judge him. Even though he understands and speaks well.
I have found that as I have tried to help him be more confident and include him and encourage him to be less shy I have taken on a “teacher/mentor” role. The more I take on that role the more I am helping him, but the less attracted I become.
In considering the questions that Andrew asked NO I do not like having dominance over a man! And I am attracted to him despite his shyness and yet I think that his shyness may ultimately be an impediment… yet it is not that he doesn’t have the balls to pursue me, because he is.
Thoughts?
Yes, but the way to make him more confident is tricky lol. For me what worked was being in a relationship with him. Strange but my husband was just as you describe. It was only after getting into a relationship with him that that began to change. As strange as this sounds, holding his hand in this situation and just supporting what he says if he ever says anything, and just general relationship things should make him more confident.
Deletei have the same problem since january. we met in online dating. i know he likes me but we never go out alone but only with his best friend. his best friend understand the whole situation so i think he does too. he calls me everyday but thats it. i dont know what more to do. asking him for the next step is also for me a turn off. what to do?
ReplyDeletewait and keep talking to him. Talk to him more and more, eventually he will tell you. Talk to him about relationships. Ask him why he is single? what he is looking for in a women? if he is interested in anyone right now? Tell him that you can not make the first move with a guy etc. Just keep talking to him, he will eventually tell you how he feels.
DeleteHe's gay. RUN RUN RUN
Deletetotally going through this. i chose to initiate so its been hard and i've been hurt so many times but now i think there's progress so i'ma keep trying x
ReplyDeleteI am a very shy guy. It was always difficult for me to meet woman. The extroverted types gain energy from being with people and socializing. Introverts like myself find it draining. We often will go off by ourselves.
ReplyDeleteIf you are truly interested in a shy guy I would recommend reading up on introversion vs extroversion. Introverts like myself spend a lot of time in our own heads.
To be honest the more confident a guy is the better it will be in a relationship. A lot of women are endeared to shy guys because they believe they are more emotionally sensitive than most guys, more in touch with their feminine side. Sadly that's an assumption. I've had some interesting experiences with guys who it wasnt the shyness, they were actually horrible people and used the shyness as a buffer. yet there are some genuinely nice guys out there. The problem though is the fixing dynamic in the relationship. Women who are nurturers have this obsessive need to fix the shy guy.And sadly their whole relationship seems to be based on this need to shape an already vulnerable guy into someone they want him to model. Some people are naturally shy, but other times shyness is a lot to do with insecurity.
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I found this post very insightful. I recently started dating a shy guy. Initially I didn't realize he was shy. I just thought cause it was so new, he was just feeling me out. At our last date, I started to suspect but I wasn't sure. Then we got into a whole text message argument cause he felt like a puppy in a purse I took everywhere for companionship. That really pissed me off cause I liked him and wasn't used to dating nice guys. Long story short, I clearly have to make the first move. I'm usually shy around new guys and especially more aggressive guys. In the past when I've dated a shy guy, I noticed I would become more dominate and take advantage of that power.
ReplyDeleteReading your post has validated some of my thoughts and feelings about this. I can take the lead to help build up his confidence but later if it gets more serious I can scale back and let him be the man, which I like.
I'm reading your other posts and so far so good!!!
I just think that it boils down to personality, I guess. I agree with everything in this article, but not the "more traditionally female role", because it does account for the fact that some women are tomboys or have more masculine personalities (i.e. Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality). Personally, I don't see myself acting all girly etc, because I often feel unnatural and forced when I act like that around guys I liked (in the past).
ReplyDeleteOne thing that really worked in terms of me liking the shy guy was the "maintaining eye contact and stares for 3- seconds)". Not so sure if saying "hi" only will work, Andrew do you think telling jokes or having casual conversations could work?
my husband is extremely shy. we spoke as friends for about half a year before he said there is something he would like to tell me, and I had to harass it out of him or him to say he liked me. Then I had to lead physically till sex but not in an obvious way. He got less shy with me over time. I do not know how he is with others maybe still shy. But yea totally worth it! Amazing spouse, amazing father, extremely smart, a good person; essentially perfect.
ReplyDeleteWhat about time Mrs Ziller, that's the issue I'm facing. How did you move from being complete strangers to friends. For stares only to having basic conversations? And also did your husband (then) have the patience to still like you after a long period of time (prior to the initial contact), I hope you don;t mind answering.
DeleteThanks for this post it dose give me a better understanding of how to approach a shy guy. Although I myself is shy and this shy guy I like appears to like me but I don't have the guts to go and speak to him. I mean how is that suppose to work when both of us are shy and I believe he knows I like him just like I know he likes me, but neither of us has stepped up. And the sad thing about this whole situation is the first time I saw him..... well this is going to sound corny but true... well for me. It was as if a light bulb went off like he could be the one for me. I didn't understand it at first but each time I saw him I was like wow.... I find him more and more attractive each time. and I really want to start talking to him but like I said I'm shy as well.... So do you have any advice as to how I should or can go about this situation?
ReplyDeleteHello may I leave a Q's?
ReplyDeleteI have met a shy guy online, we have both expressed interest, we live in different countries & keep in touch via social media. Though somewhere from expressing interest and initiating to visit him (Mind You he was excited about), he has now done the disappearing act, avoiding me online while he is active, what to do here? as I feel like im being played. Naturally a gentleman that is interested and looking forward to you making plans to visit, would make sure he is being consistent with communication? Not really I time for games or going into your shell in this kind of circumstances. Ideas?
I know of a friend that is in a similar situation, met some social site and its a lot of work but its going somewhere. Im not familiar with introverts, but its not for everyone.
DeleteA very interesting article, I'm a shy guy and what your saying is the truth. When I do get approached by a woman I'm over thinking in my head is it just for sympathy or are her intentions real and if it leads to dating I would wait after a certain amount of dates to see what her true feelings or intentions might be.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI really like a guy whom I work with. He is very shy. I know he is attracted to me and likes me but after almost 2 years of sending signals and initiating contact nothing! I feel like crap. Is it time to throw in the towel?
ReplyDeleteYes. Been down this road before. If he hasn't done something after 2 years he probably never will. He probably just likes you as a friend. It sucks but try to write him off and move on, it will hurt but you'll be happier in the long run.
DeleteShy is not synonymous with nice. Just because you get one doesn't mean you should expect the other too!
ReplyDeleteI have a dilemma as well. There's this guy whom I used to go to high school with. He told everyone (except me) that he had liked me for a long time. He used to take me on movie dates and I believe he subtly tried to depict his feelings for me, though he never directly said it. And to be honest, I never really picked up on his feelings until later haha...He asked one of my close guy friends if he had a chance with me. The guy friend said "no, she's talking to someone else" because I had told him that. He now says that he's not attracted to me anymore, but is it possible that he still is?
ReplyDeleteHi, I relate to this thread...I met this guy online about a month and a half ago, he asked me out and then we texted but he never followed up. After a month I initiated communication by asking him if he's done this activity that I wanted to go to, he sensed that I wanted to go and said he'd go with me. That started the communication going again, he's randomly showed up in places I am on his own, I'd casually mention something about where I am and he'd just say he might show up etc and he would, so this has been the pattern for the last 3 weekends. In between seeing each other, we would banter through text and email and he is very playful there but in person, it's always been borderline awkward, he doesn't talk much unless I start talking, no physical contact, I've always initiated a hug, he hasn't even tried to kiss me at all. Last weekend, when we had our activity to of own, I was hoping it would progress somehow. On my way home I even got frisky on text but due to the obvious reason that we were both drunk, nothing happened despite my " invitation" ...I'm so anxious to know his intentions, I like him and I want him to know that...he has said no to a few casual invitations I did...he had his reasons and I respect them. I don't want to come across too desperate for him and yet I know because he is shy I have to initiate at this early stage until he develops ease around me. I've dropped hints like I'm going to this place, have you been? ...I want to do this, would you be able to come after work? ...some planned ahead, some spontaneous...I've gotten him to come to my events before without a really formal invitation for him to come and I think that has worked effectively and I think I've maintained it that way. My problem now, is how to take things to the next level. He mentioned before that he's tried to date girls but things just don't progress so now I know why...what should I do at this point?
ReplyDeleteYou two should try the direct approach: ASK HIM. Life is too short for bs and games, unless you have lots of free time to waste in the emotional torture you're putting yourself (and us readers) through. Get some balls. Be unambiguous and be prepared for rejection. Also be prepared for it to go your way.
DeleteHi, there's this guy I used to have a crush on when I was in high school. We were never in the same class, I just saw him at the hallway or library or cafeteria. He's really good looking, extremely smart, and very active in sports. But despite all that, he seemed like a shy kind of guy, but I don't know cause I have never talked to him. So that was 12 years ago. We're both 26 now, last year he poked me a few times on facebook, and I was so glad he did. But he never added me or sent me messages, so that was it. Earlier this year, he did it again, but this time I sent him a message. But our conversation doesn't last very long and it's as if I'm the only one interested and asking questions and he would only short reply. Then last month he sent me a message on facebook asking for my number, its been a week now, we only text a few times and he doesnt talk much. Im the one asking a lot of question and as usual, he would reply really short and make the conversation dead. However i'm still very much interested in him, but his behaviour really confuses me. Why is he asking for my number and makes the effort to start talking to me when he doesn't have to? I mean i'm fine before he came into my life, but now he's all i'm thinking about. And his lack of interest just really makes me feel stupid for even thinking he might be interested in me. He's really confusing. My friends think i should ask him out, but im scared of rejection because i feel that he's out of my league. Like i said hes good looking and smart, and im just a plain jane. Guess im just gonna have to wait and trust that if its meant to be, then he will eventually make a move.
ReplyDeleteI have a different kind of situation. I recently had been talking with this guy who said he likes it when a girl takes the initiative. He's not shy and very social in his personality. So, I wonder if he was just trying to feel me out to see what I would say about the girls taking the initiative or if he really does like it when girls do that? In previous conversations he had talked to me about how in our area he was tired of this certain type of girl who he defined as ones who expect to be pursued and treated royally without having "earned"(?) it. I never asked him what it was that he meant that by. So does he really mean this or maybe he's just had some bad experiences in the past and when "chasing" a girl she didn't give him enough signals to keep going so he felt used? I don't know. Men and women are so different.
ReplyDeleteMy situation has been happening for a couple of years, on & off again with a shy coworker. Because we work for the same company I never allowed my attraction to show. He is shy with everyone in the office but not the men he works with in the warehouse. He never speaks to me so it was easily done to ignore his attraction. We do not work in overlapping areas so I know he had to position himself to see me. Recently I allowed my mutual attraction to show when he was watching me from across the warehouse. I'll skip the obvious ramifications this created. He finally got up the courage to approach me after 4 years of minimal contact. He made sure he was positioned in the area I walk through daily. He saw me coming put down his work, turned to face me ( which is not his usual m.o. ), put his hands in his hips, stiod tall and asked me "hey, how are you doing" emphasis on "you".
ReplyDeleteunfortunately I was rushing out of the building I had just got a call that my sister had been hospitalized and the paramedics just left my house. So I went with the answer " pretty good " rather than trying to explain anything and I rushed out of the building. I looked for him later to apologize, but he was M I A. Over the next couple weeks I realized he was purposely avoiding me because if I did see him he would be gone before I could get down the stairs. A friend outside of work suggested I write him a letter explaining the situation. I wrote the letter and explained, I also added I have a strong physical reaction to him, I become shy but I'm not a shy person, so it's quite frustrating. I become inhibited, I'm unable to speak, or form coherent thoughts when I see him or he is in my general vicinity. I become very aware of him. I had the letter dropped off to him.
I did not allude to his obvious advancement towards me in the letter, nor did I allude that I knew the attraction and interest was mutual. I only stated I was happy he had spoken to me that day and I was sorry I could not stay and speak with him.He responded to the letter a few days later, in a full page hand written letter (all caps) but what I noticed right off was that he was Very Careful to mention nothing of what had been happening. Here is the gist of it: He thanked me for my kind and flattering words and wrote "but I should tell you I have a girl friend. Don't be uncomfortable about writing a letter it was a bold thing to do and bold is usually the best way to be. See you soon".
now I'm left wondering what the heck? He doesn't work in an area that I can see him but he does position himself that he can see me or I can see him occasionally again. One time he was working right by the stairs that I take to go up to my office. I was upset that day after returning from lunch and had on my sunglasses. He could not see my face. I had the impression he was there to see me, not talk to me because he doesn't talk to me but see me. He did a double take when he saw the sunglasses and kind of slunk away.
I totally cut him off after receiving his letter. I know there was a Mutual attraction there, there was interest, and even perhaps intent he also has displayed a proprietary attitude of me towards another man. So I changed my routine schedule. Stayed completely out of his grid and off his radar. I noticed he was positioned again to see me occasionally. But after few weeks of the the cut off he seems a bit depressed, does not do his hair styling (and its a routine) anymore to come to work.
I'm single and keep myself attractive over half the man in the company have hit on me at some point but I've never reciprocated.
I was not raised around men, so yourb blog has truly taught me a lot. I do not understand what is happening. Why did he approach me? Please Andrew, any insight you can give me would be very helpful.
Honestly, it has made me resentful and angry, raging mad about this for a while now, and still to some extent, i hate, despise, loathe with a huge burning raging passion on how life and society expects us guys to toughen it up all the damn time!!!, seriously, it's like as if life, society is a military boot-camp, military drill-sergeant to us guys metaphorically speaking, i get sick and tired of hearing "Man Up, Be a Man, Grow a Pair, Grow some Balls" all the time, it makes me feel like beating the shit out of a random man in public if he dares to question my masculinity like that, would love to make him squeal like a dog as i break his fuckin' neck!!, i feel that should be enough to prove i have balls, because after all, fighting involves testosterone, and testosterone is the hormone for aggressiveness that you people argue all the time and stubbornly insist that guys be the initiators in dating and relationships, take the lead all the damn time, basically me having this mindset is me wanting to stand up for all of the nice guys out there who don't get laid and struggle to get a girlfriend, just a nice guy having to vent out and release his rage, seriously, i hate, despise, loathe with a huge burning passion on how life and society made it out to be that the guy has to do the approaching, pursuing and asking out, initiating, leading, etc.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, In your list of things a woman should do to let a shy guy know she's interested, you don't mention compliments. Wouldn't complimenting a shy guy be an important way to let him know you're interested? Would you ever recommending telling a shy guy, "I'm very attracted you," without actually asking him out for a date? Would this make things clearer for him and help him take the initiative or would it just freak him out and scare him off?
ReplyDeletei don't know but i have always liked shy guys....i find it very cute and adorable...the guy i'm currently seeing...ming it, it's just seeing...and waiting for him to propose( which i believe will end as i'll do it) is super shy...he's very nice and sensible...and doesn't blabber shit to show off coolness that many guys do these days...
ReplyDeleteand yes..as i've read comments above that shy guys are weak....then let me tell u... 99% of my close friends are guys...from players who had 20-30 gfs to those who are not shy but never had a gf...
Being shy doesn't mean weak!
Even the players or very confident guys are actually really weak...and whenever they feel weak or less confident about something...they act smart and change the topic...thats it...they are good with words..!! and play smart...!!
its about being smart!
I've seen shy boys who are really tough inside out..
There is this shy guy that I really like and I have no clue about what to do. I'm a girl in my mid-twenties from Finland.
ReplyDelete4 years ago he was the boyfriend of my best friend, that's how I used to meet him. I really liked him back then but obviously nothing could happen since I had a bf and he was with my friend. He added me on facebook but then they broke up, my friend moved to another city and I lost contact with this guy. 2 months ago he contacted me again on facebook, we spoke a lot for a few days and then he disappeared. Since I knew he was shy I decided to try at least once to contact him, so I wrote him and he said that his mother died a couple of days earlier. I let him space and didn't contact him. He wrote me again and we spoke a bit more, so I decided to ask him to go for a coffee since I was passing by his area (we live very far away).
He called me straight away and we stayed at the phone for 2 hours, speaking about stupid stuff but also pretty intimate things. He contacted me twice the following 3 days, even proposing to use his apartment if I need somewhere to go (I recently moved and I was staying at a friend place for a few nights). I said no thanks and replied with some question but he never read the message and at the day when we were supposed to meet he didn't contact me! So I texted him asking about the coffee and he reply saying that it was a mess at work and that he would let me know, but he disappeared!
After that he contacted me once after 4 days saying something stupid about the weather, I tried to make some small talk but he replied with very short sentences. What the heck is going on?! I know he is single right now and his previous girlfriends were definitely less hot than me, even though we look similar as a type (tall, dark long hair) so I'm puzzled that he doesn't even try to meet me for sex?!
From my friend I know that he's very shy so he's definitely not a player but still, I totally do not understand! What should I do next?
>>> The biggest problem is that it won't be clear to you whether or not his unresponsiveness is a product of his shyness or his lack of interest in you - because it could be either one....<<<
ReplyDeleteThis is not a problem. All you have to do is sweetly suggest that the two of you should go out to dinner or catch a movie some time. He will understand that you want to go out on date with him and will not reject him if he asks you out (this is the crucial part--he must be assured that you will not reject him). If he does not take the bait and ask you out, then he is not interested in you.
>>> His persistent willingness to hang out with you might be stem from a real interest, but it also might be a manifestation of his unfulfilled desire for female attention; he could just enjoy dabbling in the idea of a relationship but at the same time not like you enough to want anything serious with you...<<<
If he does ask you out to dinner or a movie, then you can can proceed to date him like a regular guy. Compliment him honestly but not excessively. Become friends, share things about yourself, encourage him to share as well, and monitor his behavior. Is he attentive or is he bored during conversation? Is he happy to keep talking or fidgeting like he wants to leave?
Your objective is to make sure he knows that you like him. Then the regular dating rules come into play--does he plan for dates and ask you out? Or does he disappear for 2 weeks? You can sense it. If he is takes you for granted and half-heartedly asks you to dinner or canceling on you at the last minute, then he just isn't that into you. You'll need to break it off and keep looking for someone who really wants to be with you.
I find that dating shy men is not for inexperienced women. You really need to have some solid dating skills as a woman to know how to approach and date a shy man. But I imagine that if you assess him and the situation correctly, you can end up with a highly devoted, sensitive partner--one that few confident men can match.
I'm very intrigued by this post and the topic of "shy guys". I've been friends with a shy guy for years...he's part of a group of friends of mine that is very tight. There have been lots of hints throughout the years that he might like me but never anything blatant (at least in my eyes) showing that he does in fact like me. It's frustrating because I have very strong feelings for him but don't know if the feeling is mutual. Short of putting him on the spot, I have no way of knowing. How should I approach the situation? I think there is a future but I'm starting to feel like if I don't make the first move there will be no chance. Help!
ReplyDeleteIf anyone doesn't think its worth it then I would say think again. 12 months after having a fabulous friendship i tried to take it to the next level by hugging him goodbye - he freaked - I had patience and backed off and after a while he started to accept a hug now and then. Two weeks ago I decided to invite him to stay which he agreed to. We spent the evening watching a movie but at the last minute he panicked and said he couldn't be more than friends - he was terrified. As you can imagine after 12 months stop start and no real understanding where I stood I just threw the towel in and finished it. 2 days later after no contact I came home to find a beautiful bouquet and a letter asking for time to explain - I refused - he then turned up on my doorstep stating he'd realised that he had lost me but now couldn't live without me - he'd always been nervous of women and terrified of getting hurt to the extent that he would run away if it became too much for him. since then the change has been amazing - my best friend had now morphed into my lover and i couldn't be happier - I can only say it can work and once he takes the plunge it is amazing
ReplyDeleteIt never ceases to amaze me, the amount of men who claim to have "once been shy but no longer" having the audacity to claim that genuinely shy people are not worth bothering with.
ReplyDeleteAbove you go through a whole list of semi amateur pop psychology into the reasons why a woman would even want to date a shy guy, intimating that someone whom is shy is abnormal in some way.
Yet, if you were to meet a shy woman (not uncommon) there would be no problem as society dictates that men should make the first move anyway (so much for equality), but not once would you stop to ask yourself all of your above questions, such as why do you want to bother etc etc.
Truth is that I have spoken with many women who all have one failing in common......over confident men and then w
This blog is garbage. The blogger is biased. Too many hasty generalizations and many other logical fallacies. Read at your own risk. Take it with a grain of salt. This is just some persons opinion lacking in factual evidense. I have an opinion, I think that the blogger has TAMS; Toxic Alpha Male Syndrome. Shy dudes are people too and just because someone goes for one does not mean that he's going to go for them. He might be very masculine and assertive yet just simply be shy when it comes to romance; there's nothing wrong with that. I am a shy guy and I have had my fair share of women and relationships and romance and dating and sex. I am happily married right now. Don't pay this crappy blog any mind.
ReplyDeleteI agree! Fell in love with a shy guy last year just for who he was - not DESPITE his shyness. And I've never been rejected by an "asshole" (in fact, the shy guy ended up rejecting me), and have no "Daddy issues" whatsoever. He was very sweet, caring and perceptive, and I loved that. Way more than most "confident" guys I know. And I write "confident" because what you really talk about when you talk about confidence, Andrew, is not confidence but merely extroversion. This guy was quiet and although he did lacked confidence socially, when surrounded by large groups of people, personally he was very authentic and vulnerable.
DeleteAlso, just because I liked this shy guy doesn't mean that I don't like confident guys too. It all comes down more to whether our values are compatible than whether they are "shy" or "confident".
Dear Andrew,
ReplyDeleteYou talk of shyness as if it were a negative thing. I don't agree with you in any way and the guy I am trying to get to know and date is shy. So I am not dating him because I am interested in his shyness because he seems "easier" to catch or despite his shyness. His shyness is part of who he is. He is shy because he is a sensitive human being with a much much higher IQ than most people. He is not a weak wuzz because he served his country as an airforce jetplane fighter and soldier. What I see is a man who cares for other people, who is a complete gentleman and who is shy because he is interested in me and has a crush on me. He is not shy with other people, just with me.
I am so tired of playing fucking games and drawing the attention of dominant men, who dont feel shy when around me for the following reasons:
1. I am one in a thousand of all the other girls they've dated and my rejection doesnt bother them.
2. They are married so if I reject them they have someone else to lean on to.
3. They are not in the least interested in me so they have no problems talking to me like a normal person.
I like this shy dude because sometimes he does brave things normal guys never do, he is not obsessed with how I view him but when he sees I am having a problem he takes genuine interest in my feelings.
I like his shyness because that is what makes him human and real and a wonderful person and guess fucking what? Sometimes I am also shy.
ReplyDeleteHenderson Elizabeth
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