I didn't kiss a girl until I was 20 years old. Although that doesn't seem very odd to me in retrospect, it definitely made me feel awkward at the time. From about the age of 16 on, I vividly remember being paranoid of admitting to my friends that I'd never kissed a girl. The fear was so severe that I used to rehearse in my mind how I would equivocate if I were ever asked about it.
I was much less ashamed about being a virgin, because virginity was something I actively believed in at the time. Not having kissed a girl, on the other hand, was just a product of my inability to attract the kind of girl I wanted to kiss. But anyway, the point is that I know how much pressure a girl (or woman) can feel to live up to what she sees as the socially acceptable level of sexual experience for someone her age. And even though my beliefs have changed a lot since then, I can also identify with the belief that sex should be saved for marriage, or at least for some significant level of feeling or commitment.
There is no doubt in my mind that female virgins feel this pressure. One of the most common questions I get from readers is "what will he think if he finds out that I am a virgin?" I've already written a post answering this question, but I also want to discuss the best way to go about dating as a virgin. And I will do that by answering the next four most common questions that I receive from girls about virginity, namely:
I'll address each question separately. But first, I want to take a moment to highlight what is perhaps the important thing...
One of the biggest problems virgins face is that they don't know why they want to be virgins. Their parents told them not to sleep around, and it seemed like a good idea for a while, but it isn't something they've ever decided for themselves - or if they did at some point, they're now starting to doubt that decision. Meanwhile, the social pressure to do otherwise is starting to increase, as is their hormonal drive - both of which they were warned against by their parents. The result is an internal conflict that makes both paths seem "wrong" and incredibly difficult to reconcile.
Let me be clear: I am not going to tell you that virginity is right or wrong, and I am not going to tell you whether or not you should stay a virgin. That is a normative decision, and not mine to make for you. I will say that Western society has undeniably pushed the normal marriage age beyond the years at which are bodies are prime for sex and children (few people will dispute this). And while this doesn't mean that you should or shouldn't have sex, it does mean that if you want to stay a virgin until marriage, it's going to be tough.
Without having a clear idea in your mind about the circumstances in which you want to lose your virginity, there is no way that you are going to be able to resist the social and biological pressure to have sex; and as I will explain, neither is there any way that you will be confident in your dating life. So the first thing you need to do in order to start dating successfully as a virgin is to decide when or under what circumstances you want to stop dating as a virgin.
With that said, let's get into the questions...
1. Should you tell the guys you are date that you are a virgin?
This seems like a simple "yes" or "no" question, but it isn't. The very fact that you feel the need to ask it betrays a problem much deeper than your confusion about whether or not to tell a guy that you've never had sex before. The problem is that you are treating your virginity like something that you have to admit, which is another way of saying that you are treating it like something that you need to hide. So the far more important question is "why do I feel ashamed of my virginity?"
Usually, the answer is that you aren't sure of your reasons for being a virgin to begin with. If you were really sure of your life decisions, you wouldn't be worried about what the guys you date think of them. You'd (rightly) disqualify guys who disapproved of your virginity because their disapproval betrays their incompatibility with you.
Once you are comfortable with your decision, you won't need me to tell you the answer to your original question, which is that, yes, you should tell him you are a virgin, but only if the topic comes up naturally. And this brings us to the second question...
2. When should you tell guys you are dating that you are a virgin?
Telling a guy that you are a virgin should be no different than telling him who you voted for in the presidential elections, or whether or not you believe in god, or any other potentially divisive fact about yourself. You wouldn't feel a need to "confess" to him that you voted for Ron Paul on your first date; but you'd tell him if he asked - or if your political views came up in the course of conversation. Virginity, politics, religion, etc. - these are the kinds of things that you eventually need to know about each other because they reveal a person's values; but we don't immediately discuss them because a person's values aren't the only important thing about them. If you skipped the conversation about favorite movies, or family, or personal interests, you'd be missing a big piece of the picture. Likewise, if you only talked about how much you both love that one comedian, and never brought up those topics that make you a little nervous to discuss, you'd be missing out on important information about the other person.
Topics like politics and virginity make you nervous because they can be divisive, and you are afraid of losing him if you learn that each other have clashing values (e.g. if he doesn't value virginity, but you do). But by guarding this information about yourself, you are missing out. Not only will being open about yourself allow you to find a compatible man, it will be attractive because it will show that you are confident about who you are and how you choose to live your life. You need to be comfortable with the idea of losing a guy before you can be open enough to attract him. In fact, often when a man seems turned off by a girls virginity, it isn't her virginity that is the problem; it's her insecurity.
Since having confidence in your life decisions is more easily said than done, it can help to know that most guys won't think you are weird for being a virgin; and if a guy is put off by it, it is because he wasn't that into you to begin with.
3. How should you tell guys you are dating that you are a virgin?
In order to answer this question, we need to look more closely at what I mean by the topic "coming up naturally." This could happen fairly directly - for example, over dinner on a first date, if he is bold enough to bring up sex and the conversation takes a natural path towards sexual experience. But more than likely, it will happen when you are in bed together and you shut him down when tries to take things to a sexual level. The first few times this happens, he will probably just attribute it to you not being ready for sex. But eventually, he is going to start wondering and he will probably ask you about it. At that point, here is a good way to navigate the conversation that is likely to follow:
4. How do you know when to give your virginity to a guy?
This is another question that betrays somewhat of the wrong attitude. If you have to ask it, it suggests that you don't know why you are a virgin. If you knew why you are a virgin, you would also know under what circumstances you are willing to stop being a virgin. The two go hand in hand. If you don't want to have sex until you fall in love, then have sex once you fall in love. If you don't want to have sex until marriage, then have sex after you get married. If you don't want to have sex until X happens, have sex only after X happens. Not having had sex until X happens might be a little counter-cultural, but it beats the hell out of losing your virginity before X happens and living with the knowledge that a culture bullied you into it.
Related Posts
1. What Men Think About Your Virginity
2. What Men Think About Your Sexual History
3. Never Tell a Guy When You'll Have Sex With Him
I was much less ashamed about being a virgin, because virginity was something I actively believed in at the time. Not having kissed a girl, on the other hand, was just a product of my inability to attract the kind of girl I wanted to kiss. But anyway, the point is that I know how much pressure a girl (or woman) can feel to live up to what she sees as the socially acceptable level of sexual experience for someone her age. And even though my beliefs have changed a lot since then, I can also identify with the belief that sex should be saved for marriage, or at least for some significant level of feeling or commitment.
There is no doubt in my mind that female virgins feel this pressure. One of the most common questions I get from readers is "what will he think if he finds out that I am a virgin?" I've already written a post answering this question, but I also want to discuss the best way to go about dating as a virgin. And I will do that by answering the next four most common questions that I receive from girls about virginity, namely:
- Should you tell the guys you date that you are a virgin?
- When should you tell guys you are dating that you are a virgin?
- How should you tell guys you are dating that you are a virgin?
- How do you know when to give your virginity to a guy?
I'll address each question separately. But first, I want to take a moment to highlight what is perhaps the important thing...
One of the biggest problems virgins face is that they don't know why they want to be virgins. Their parents told them not to sleep around, and it seemed like a good idea for a while, but it isn't something they've ever decided for themselves - or if they did at some point, they're now starting to doubt that decision. Meanwhile, the social pressure to do otherwise is starting to increase, as is their hormonal drive - both of which they were warned against by their parents. The result is an internal conflict that makes both paths seem "wrong" and incredibly difficult to reconcile.
Let me be clear: I am not going to tell you that virginity is right or wrong, and I am not going to tell you whether or not you should stay a virgin. That is a normative decision, and not mine to make for you. I will say that Western society has undeniably pushed the normal marriage age beyond the years at which are bodies are prime for sex and children (few people will dispute this). And while this doesn't mean that you should or shouldn't have sex, it does mean that if you want to stay a virgin until marriage, it's going to be tough.
Without having a clear idea in your mind about the circumstances in which you want to lose your virginity, there is no way that you are going to be able to resist the social and biological pressure to have sex; and as I will explain, neither is there any way that you will be confident in your dating life. So the first thing you need to do in order to start dating successfully as a virgin is to decide when or under what circumstances you want to stop dating as a virgin.
With that said, let's get into the questions...
1. Should you tell the guys you are date that you are a virgin?
This seems like a simple "yes" or "no" question, but it isn't. The very fact that you feel the need to ask it betrays a problem much deeper than your confusion about whether or not to tell a guy that you've never had sex before. The problem is that you are treating your virginity like something that you have to admit, which is another way of saying that you are treating it like something that you need to hide. So the far more important question is "why do I feel ashamed of my virginity?"
Usually, the answer is that you aren't sure of your reasons for being a virgin to begin with. If you were really sure of your life decisions, you wouldn't be worried about what the guys you date think of them. You'd (rightly) disqualify guys who disapproved of your virginity because their disapproval betrays their incompatibility with you.
Once you are comfortable with your decision, you won't need me to tell you the answer to your original question, which is that, yes, you should tell him you are a virgin, but only if the topic comes up naturally. And this brings us to the second question...
2. When should you tell guys you are dating that you are a virgin?
Telling a guy that you are a virgin should be no different than telling him who you voted for in the presidential elections, or whether or not you believe in god, or any other potentially divisive fact about yourself. You wouldn't feel a need to "confess" to him that you voted for Ron Paul on your first date; but you'd tell him if he asked - or if your political views came up in the course of conversation. Virginity, politics, religion, etc. - these are the kinds of things that you eventually need to know about each other because they reveal a person's values; but we don't immediately discuss them because a person's values aren't the only important thing about them. If you skipped the conversation about favorite movies, or family, or personal interests, you'd be missing a big piece of the picture. Likewise, if you only talked about how much you both love that one comedian, and never brought up those topics that make you a little nervous to discuss, you'd be missing out on important information about the other person.
Topics like politics and virginity make you nervous because they can be divisive, and you are afraid of losing him if you learn that each other have clashing values (e.g. if he doesn't value virginity, but you do). But by guarding this information about yourself, you are missing out. Not only will being open about yourself allow you to find a compatible man, it will be attractive because it will show that you are confident about who you are and how you choose to live your life. You need to be comfortable with the idea of losing a guy before you can be open enough to attract him. In fact, often when a man seems turned off by a girls virginity, it isn't her virginity that is the problem; it's her insecurity.
Since having confidence in your life decisions is more easily said than done, it can help to know that most guys won't think you are weird for being a virgin; and if a guy is put off by it, it is because he wasn't that into you to begin with.
3. How should you tell guys you are dating that you are a virgin?
In order to answer this question, we need to look more closely at what I mean by the topic "coming up naturally." This could happen fairly directly - for example, over dinner on a first date, if he is bold enough to bring up sex and the conversation takes a natural path towards sexual experience. But more than likely, it will happen when you are in bed together and you shut him down when tries to take things to a sexual level. The first few times this happens, he will probably just attribute it to you not being ready for sex. But eventually, he is going to start wondering and he will probably ask you about it. At that point, here is a good way to navigate the conversation that is likely to follow:
You: "No, that's going too far, we need to slow down."Otherwise the conversation could come up somewhat randomly - say, while you are sitting on the couch together watching TV. If he brings up something related to sex, for example, the conversation might require you to point out that you are a virgin. In that case, go ahead and do so. I'll use a "tough" example. Assume that you are 23 and he is 24:
Him: "Really? I mean, we've been through this several times, and we've been dating for three months now... Are you... are you a virgin?"
You: "Yeah"
Him: "I thought so."
You: "Yeah, I mean, getting close to having sex makes me a little uncomfortable, just because I've never had sex before, so I am not surprised that you noticed."
Him: "Wow, so you've never had sex before?"
You: "Haha nope."
Him: "Haha never?!? That's crazy - why not?"
You: "[insert your personal reasoning here and - if it is true- explain that you aren't opposed to having sex with the right guy]"
Him: "Yeah well I respect that" [Note: Almost every guy will say this. Yes, as you suspect, it's at least half bullshit. If he really respected, it, he'd still be a virgin himself. He says this to make you feel better about the situation, which he probably suspects is a little awkward for you.]
You: "So, umm... can we continue making out now? I was kind of enjoying that..."
Him: "Haha today at work me and the guys were talking about sex, and this one guy, Paul - actually you know him, you met him at Jessica's party - anyway, he's kind of a ladies' man, but somehow it came up that he didn't lose his virginity until he was 23!"The point is that, even if it feels like a big deal and you are nervous, just "jump in" and tell him. Even if he reacts as if it's a big deal, your reaction will set the tone more than his. No matter what he says, maintain a tone of voice that says "yeah, I am a virgin... So?" Also, if you need the motivation to "jump in," know that it's better to be the one to say it first (as in the example above) than to only "admit" it after he pries it out of you. This looks insecure, and as we discussed earlier: insecure < virgin.
You: "Wow, that's pretty late..." [your heart starts beating a little faster, sensing that the question might come up any moment now. The gears in your head start spinning, thinking about how you can avoid it. Try to ignore both reactions.]
Him: "Yeah, I couldn't believe it. I mean, I am pretty tame when it comes to sleeping with girls, and I lost mine when I was 19. Actually, I even thought that was late..." [your nerves kick in even more, knowing that he considers 19 "late." But this is also where you choose to engage the topic, in spite of your fear.]
You: "19 isn't that late, but 23 definitely is later than normal... Haha you don't know this about me, but I am actually still a virgin."
Him: "Wait, what - really? You're kidding. You're 23; how are you still a virgin??"
You: "Well, see... in my teens I was super horny and I didn't want STDs or a baby before getting married, so I had my doctor sew up my vagina."
Him: "Haha WTF?!?"
You: "I'm kidding! No, ok, I mean, I don't know, I guess most of the guys that have been interested in sex were clearly only interested in sex. I am not waiting for Mr. Perfect, but I am too proud to let a guy bang me when I know he is just going to take off afterwards. I mean come on... So yeah, my criteria are a little higher than most girls' and it just hasn't happened yet."
Him: "I guess that makes sense. I really respect that."
You: "Good. So anyway, what else happened today at work?"
4. How do you know when to give your virginity to a guy?
This is another question that betrays somewhat of the wrong attitude. If you have to ask it, it suggests that you don't know why you are a virgin. If you knew why you are a virgin, you would also know under what circumstances you are willing to stop being a virgin. The two go hand in hand. If you don't want to have sex until you fall in love, then have sex once you fall in love. If you don't want to have sex until marriage, then have sex after you get married. If you don't want to have sex until X happens, have sex only after X happens. Not having had sex until X happens might be a little counter-cultural, but it beats the hell out of losing your virginity before X happens and living with the knowledge that a culture bullied you into it.
It isn't complicated. In fact, it is too simple to be the real issue behind the question. The danger, and the real reason girls ask the question, is that after several months or years of holding on to a principle (whether that be meeting an ideal lover or a moral code), you become frustrated at your inability to meet the criteria you set out for yourself. Maybe you haven't met the kind of guy you're willing to give your virginity to, or maybe you haven't gotten married yet. When this happens, the temptation is to either
(a) blame that inability on the fact that you are a virgin, or
(b) convince yourself that your requirements for sex were exaggerated, and then sleep with the next guy who comes along to prove to yourself that you really believe it.
Both are weak attempts to hide from the truth, which is that you failed to reach the situation in which you'd be comfortable having sex. That failure might not have been your fault, but it is the disappointing reality nonetheless, and this is where questions about "how do you know when..." creep in. So my advice is this: don't compromise your ideal; figure out what you have to do to live up to that ideal, and start working towards it. Rise to the challenge. Yes, there is such a thing as having unrealistic expectations, and you should give some thought to this, but be careful of falling into situation (b), above.
Related Posts
1. What Men Think About Your Virginity
2. What Men Think About Your Sexual History
3. Never Tell a Guy When You'll Have Sex With Him
Well. As a woman who was a virgin until february this year (I'm 23 yrs old), I confess I was waiting for this post for a while (you were always saying "working on it" on previous topics). So, long story short, I had a boyfriend for 5 yrs and we were both waiting until marriage (no religious reasons whatsoever, we just felt like that), but then at some point I started to want to have sex and he called me a slut for that. We broke up two years ago, both virgins. I dated other guys for a short time, but then I moved to another country, got a job, grew up, and after a while I met this man with whom I lost it. We were dating for 4 months and he knew I was a virgin, and he seemed really nice (met his father, went out as a couple with his friends and so). Although we were exclusive, we've always said we were not in a serious relationship, mostly because I am leaving the country the next semester and he said it would be bad to put a lot of emotions on this, and I agreed. Either way, all that stuff made me want to lose it, and so I did. It hurt like hell, worst pain of my life, and we didn't go all the way or had sex for real because he said he felt like raping me since I couldn't handle it. He told me to go home and "fuck myself" literally, before trying again. I thought we would continue together after that, to enjoy the time I am still around, but no.
ReplyDeleteCan't say I feel ok with that, because perhaps next time I'll date someone I will still want to slow things down, maybe now even more. But it happened and sucked.
Anyway, thanks for the article, although I don't have my virginity anymore. If it had been published in january, I think the outcome would still have been the same.
Oof well I'm sorry that it hurt, you should actually fuck yourself with a dildo. Lol.
DeleteI read somewhere that women shouldn't disclose their sexual status to a man. This is especially true for virgins since some men might pursue further for bragging rights only. The author (a man) says that if a man expresses the need to ask a woman about her virginity, then he is after sex not her. What do you think of this?
ReplyDeleteI can post the website if you're interested. It's wwnh.wordpress.com/. Just click on the CONTENT section on the top of the page and click on the VIRTUAL VIRGINITY series. The website has some excellent information on other issues as well. I suggest other women to check it out!
I agree with this.. the less said the better -early on.. I think eventually it may need to be disclosed as they might figure it out. But what if a guy specifically asks casually "I assume you've had sex before.." and you haven't and don't want to lie (not answering and/or avoiding the question will in and of itself give him an answer so then what??
DeleteIf a guy asks you that question, you could ask him something like, "Why would you say that?" and see how he responds. He would probably be at a lost for words. Then you could say, "It's still possible to be a virgin today despite the cultural norm." Don't go into detail about your own status. And if he asks if you are a virgin you could change the subject or say that you don't feel comfortable disclosing such information to someone you barely know. If he respects you, he will comply. Men like to figure things out so by you answering that way, it will most likely keep him questioning his assumption you've had sex without you actually saying it.
DeleteHope that makes sense :)
As a guy who's a virgin & believes in waiting till marriage, & looking for the same in a girl, I'd always prefer to know ASAP whether a girl is a virgin or not, otherwise it'd just be a waste of time for both.
DeleteOn the other hand, knowing that a girl is waiting for marriage would cause most casual guys to run for the door immediately, some might stick around for a couple of weeks, may be a couple of months (if they are REALLY patient or desperate or have some kind of "virgin fetish") in the hopes of changing your mind but eventually, they'll get the message & leave, if you don't budge.
As far as marriage goes, I think men still value virginity. If they had to choose between marrying an emotionally secure, loving, wise, and kind virgin or an emotionally secure, loving, wise, and kind non-virgin, and they were both beautiful, most would choose the virgin over the non-virgin. Virginity is still valued by men who are looking for commitment, but it is not as common so therefore not expected.
ReplyDeleteIf she is a virgin because she is spiritual, highly selective, or sees sex as an expression of full love to her partner and wants to give herself to her significant other as a gift and token of love, then that is a very desirable quality. She is a virgin for good reason, for reasons that make her that much more attractive in the eyes of men. Like you said, the reasons are everything. So if you're a virgin, before you go out and have casual sex with a random man, figure out the true reasons why you're still a virgin, then decided if you still want to wait. It will take a lot of introspection and honesty but at least you can figure out what you really want and why.
@Andrew-can you do a post on unattractive women being threatened by women who are more beautiful than they are? It's funny yet sad to see how jealous women behave when threatened by others, and I think there's a lesson or two us readers might benefit from. The comment from the reader above, about a man choosing between two equally beautiful women, one being a virgin and one not made me think of it. I think it's difficult for unattractive women who are insecure (and pretend to be confident) to manage their emotions at times, especially when they are clearly less attractive. In other words, how should a 2 accept they are a 2 and can never be an 8? ...can they? That's a crass way of putting it, but that's effectively what I'm trying to ask lol
DeleteNot sure if you've come across any interesting tidbits you can share. Nice post btw.
I agree with Emily, I would like to see a post like that
DeleteThank you Andrew for this post.
ReplyDeleteI am an atheist, not religious, 22 year-old girl and a self-imposed virgin. I have never wanted to sleep around with guys, not only I find it morally corrupt but I have more security in myself and I dont feel that I need a man's approval to feel comfortable in my skin, plus I usually set very high standards in terms of the people I let very close to myself. And although I would have had lot of chances already like one night stands (whenever I go out with friends), I rejected a hell lot of guys, both those who just wanted to sleep with me and also guys who wanted to date me (I didn't like them enough). I think I am still a virgin because I try to live up to very high standards in dating while I am an introvert and not very sociable person and tend to be shy in social situations which puts off the kind of guys I would like. It is also probably because I reject to live up to today's extreme beauty standards (I don't wear any makeup, I never look slutty, I like to be the girl-next-door type) and I constantly reject guys (or just avoid them, because I know they are not a good fit). Although, I have never hidden my virginity from guys who I was really interested in and tried to sleep with me, because I know why I am virgin, and I dont have any regrets. I just feel that I havent found the right person yet, and although it is getting very hard (!!) to control hormones (I really do want to have sex), I dont want to lose it with just someone random, in a hit-and-run case, and I feel disgusted by the thought of having sex with someone I am not attracted to (which for me includes feelings!). So, as reading through your article, I realized that it is not relevant to my case, but thanks anyways, as it caught my attention instantly. :)
I'm a virgin agnostic-atheist male waiting till marriage. Non-religious virgins are so rare that it's troubling to realize that so many of the people who pride themselves on the use of reason to find their answers in life seem to behave so unreasonably when it comes to such an important aspect of their lives. Glad to know that there are a couple of others out there who think like me.
DeleteThank you for posting this. I think you've given a lot of very good advice here. I'm a 28-year-old virgin who has been unlucky in love, and you really hit home with your point about frustrations over inability to meet our own criteria causing us to blame our virginity or throw it away. That bitterness and the temptation to just jump into bed with someone has been especially prominent for me this past year, yet I never looked at those feelings in the way that you just explained them. That was rather eye-opening.
ReplyDeleteI do want to add something to your advice about when to tell the guy you're dating you're a virgin. In my experience, the men who were already emotionally attached to me took the news much better than guys I had only started dating. I've always felt confident about my decision to stay a virgin until I'm in a serious relationship, and I convey this to the men I date, but if I tell them too soon - even if it comes up naturally in conversation or as we're getting increasingly physically intimate - they say they respect my decision (as you described) but they largely disappear after that. You described this phenomenon in your earlier post about virginity, and I think you're right that guys who disappear aren't looking for anything serious anyway. However, I wonder if I had waited longer to tell them, then they may have stuck around long enough to actually start to like me - and then perhaps wouldn't have disappeared once they learned of my virginity. I could be entirely wrong about this... but the strategy I'm going to employ with the next guy I date is to keep my virginity a secret until we've been seeing each other for at least a month. If he starts pushing for sex before then, I'm just going to say, "Not yet." Also, I really wish I could meet the guys you describe in your hypothetical scenarios. 3 months had gone by and he only recently started suggesting sex? The guys I meet start pushing for sex after 3 dates. Give me his number?
Also, I just started a blog devoted to this very subject. I'll link it in case it interests you or your readers. http://datingasavirgin.weebly.com/
Hey Andrew, and other lovely readers, my question is related to not initiating contact -
ReplyDeleteI went on a lovely first date. Guy said we should meet up again but we can't for a few weeks as I'm back in my uni town now. He texted me to let him know when I'm back.
He hasn't texted for a couple days, so should I initiate a text to see how he's doing and keep communication between us going?
Thanks!
Daphne-I don't see anything wrong with sending him a text saying hi and maybe ask him how he's doing or something like that. Don't expect an immediate reply, and maybe put some thought into your text so you don't end up sending follow up texts to clarify what you said. People might have other views :)
DeleteThanks Emily L! I did send a text in the end, so we made plans for next weekend :)
Delete@Daphne. Very cool! I hope it all goes well for you!
DeleteGood post Andrew!
ReplyDeleteOn a side note, I sent you an email last Saturday (26th April) and would love some advice on the subject matter. I read your prerequisite prior to sending an email and kept it short (less than 300 words, clear and concise). I'm hoping this message can serve as a gentle reminder as I could really benefit from your input.
I'm about 200 emails behind at the moment. To be honest, I will probably skip most of them to catch up, otherwise I'll never be able to. I suggest sending me your question again in a couple weeks and being sure it meets the criteria I give on the How to Ask Me for Advice page.
DeleteTurning 24 and still a virgin. Whats worse is I don't know how to kiss a guy and never been in a relationship. I HAVE had my first kiss (this year) but it was so bad, so I'm sure the next guy I still wont have a clue.
ReplyDeleteIts embarrassing as hell to be this age and have to admit that. Worse than being a virgin. What do you think I should say if they ask about my dating history? Latley I've been saying "I never found anyone I wanted to commit to a LTR with" but i can sense they aren't buying it. I'd rather lie...
If it's the truth, they will buy it, because you'll "admit" It comfortably and with conviction. It sounds like it isn't the truth though, that you are disappointed at your inability to find a guy to date and maybe sleep with, and your virginity is a symptom of that disappointment with yourself - just like my not having kissed a girl at age 20 was a symptom of my inability to attract the kind of girl I wanted to kiss.
DeleteIn this case, I suggest that you start to focus seriously on the things that are preventing you from finding a boyfriend. Maybe it's your weight, maybe it's your insecurity, or maybe it's something else. But whatever it is, be brutally honest with yourself, identify it, and start chipping away at the problem.
And by the way, I am sure that the kiss wasn't as awful as you think for the guy. If it was, bad kissing is always due to poor chemistry between the two people; it's never a skill issue. When you finally kiss a guy you have a good connection with, it will feel easy and right.
I just discovered this blog, so maybe my reply is a little late. Anyway, I was/am in the same boat. Back when I was 20, I fell for someone (she was in her senior year at high school, I was in my second year at college). Unfortunately, it didn't work out. I'm not sure of the reasons. We both got along as friends for over a year, saw each other every day at school, and there was mutual attraction. I suspect we were both too shy and unable to admit our feelings for each other, so it never went to the next level. Whatever the reason, the whole thing ended horribly. Since then, I haven't found anyone I would even want to date, never mind commit to a long-term relationship involving sex. Yes, she was that attractive to me in every way. Nobody since has even remotely compared to her. Therefore, I just lost interest in looking as everyone I met would have been a huge step down in looks, brains, and personality. By my mid 30s I accepted I would never hook up, and came to terms with it. I'm 51 now.
DeleteIt sounds to me like you have very high standards and/or perhaps very unusual tastes. Both are true in my case. That could easily account for people remaining virgins for long time (perhaps indefinitely) without anything being wrong with them in the conventional sense. Sure, I could have hooked up and had sex if I wanted to. I did have others interested in me from time to time, but they just weren't what I was looking for. The fact that I found at least one person who I would have wanted tells me my standards aren't totally unrealistic, just very high. My choices were to lower my standards, or remain single. I choose the latter. I don't really regret this decision. The alternative would have been settling. That would have been unfair to me, and unfair to the person I settled with.
You're under no obligation to give anyone your dating history, at least not until you've known them a while. Truth is I never even told my parents, or anyone else, about the girl I fell for until ten years after the fact. I felt it was our business alone, not anyone else's. Why a person's dating history or sex life should be public is beyond me. I feel you should only share that info with someone once you're involved in a long term relationship, but not with strangers, and not with casual friends.
Continuing my previous post,
DeleteWhatever your reasons for never being in a relationship at age 24, remember there are lots of others like you. Our society makes people think everyone has been in a bunch of relationships by the time they've graduated high school. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many high quality people spent their teens and the twenties in school, working hard towards their future. There wasn't time for dating or relationships. Many of my peers didn't marry until their late 30s, if at all. You have plenty of time to find someone. Even if you want children you have plenty of time. Truth is, even for myself, I haven't even put the idea of hooking up completely off the table. I'm not actively looking, but if someone came along who blew me away I wouldn't say no. As I couldn't are less about having children (never did actually) my age wouldn't be an issue. The thing is, I never did and won't lower my standards just to avoid being alone. That's a colossal mistake for anyone. I suspect many of those who are virgins into their 20s, 30s, and beyond are simply people with rather high standards, not people who have some major flaw.
Finally, our society is obsessed with youth, but in many don't fully develop until late in life. I really never came into my own until my 40s. Others I knew are similar late starters. This doesn't mean we were immature children before that. It just means we didn't fully develop our personalities and sense of ourselves until much later than is considered usual. Bottom line is don't give into societal pressure to do things you don't feel you're ready for. In my mind, if a person is a virgin for the right reasons, it's a virtue, not a curse. You just need to find someone else who feels the same.
Hi Andrew! Your work is awesome-i appreciate u so much!! I told this great guy who I was dating consistently for 2 mths that I felt sex should be preserved for marriage and that I hadn't had sex despite having had serious relationships becuz I couldn't see myself marrying my ex's. He told me appreciated my values and seemed happy bout it..then I asked him if he'd be ok with waiting or would he feel the need to have sex elsewhere (which was probly inappropriate for me to ask him, as he had cheated once on his high school gf 10yrs ago & she broke up with him due to not being able to regain trust). His response was: "well, we're not in a relationship but if we were, I would not cheat, I would just break up if i felt it got to that point". He still contacted me after that, even told me he missed me while i was travelling..then out of nowhere abruptly stopped. I reached out once casually wishing him a good wknd and he responded asking how i was, but beyond that, he hasnt contacted in 4wks. Im "cutting him off" but I was enjoying taking it slow/getting to kno each other and i feel like i gave the impression im waiting til marriage when really Im just waiting for a serious relationship with the right guy and i wish i had made that more clear and wish i could re-do our convo cuz I feel like I gave him the wrong impression making him think it'll be years before we'd ever have sex (which wouldn't have been the case).
ReplyDeleteCurious to hear your thoughts.. thank you Andrew!
-Elizabeth
If you really read this blog you'd have your answer. Read it: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2013/03/what-men-think-about-your-virginity.html
DeleteHe disappeared because he does not want the responsibility of taking your virginity; he is not interested in anything with you besides casual sex. You are going to have to get used to guys flaking if you are waiting for a serious relationship. You've been pining for a month? Move on love!
Hi! Thank u for ur reply! I read that but the confusing part is he's back asking to hang out with an explanation about being busy. Its prbably bs but I feel i don't have much reason to stop talking to him/get mad given he's not my bf and I'm still open to dating other guys. But I like I said, it was cool getting to know him/taking it day by day until I dropped the bomb with the virgin talk which just put unecessary pressure on both of us. Do I give this another chance and see where it goes or just tell him to get lost?
DeleteYeah it is bs. If you continue to hang out with him you'll only get more interested. Talking about your virginity is not at all "unnecessary pressure" it is about you and your needs!! He cannot deliver and you cannot be friends. The time you're wasting on this guy could be spent with someone else. He knows this as well, but wants to keep you around.
DeleteThe reason he reached out to you is because he is hoping you're going to give in to his needs. After ignoring you for a month he has made his position very clear; if you proceed then you must follow his rules: no serious relationship.
You're right -- with both this comment and the comment below - you're awesome and I appreciate ur feedback so much!
DeleteI guess - without trying to rationalize the issue and also in recognizing my needs - I guess i just can't help but think to myself that his reaction would be normal for any normal guy though, no? I mean I dated someone before him that was too ready for marriage and moving way too quickly before we even knew each other! It was awful. Whereas this guy and I were taking it nice and slow and just having fun getting to know each other, which is what I wanted. After that talk and given that marriage was brought up (totally a convo I never wished to have that soon), I myself even got scared given that altho we were at the point of taking the next step it was also way too soon to where we really didn't know each other that well to consider something so serious as who we wish to marry. Anyways, your advice -- i guess at this point would you say there's no way to even going back to just taking it slow and getting to know each other? and therefore, i should just ignore him i guess? thanks again, i really appreciate ur advice!
The lessons on this blog are so critical to internalize! I've been there and I used this blog to improve after having my heart ripped out. Luckily I was still a virgin as well as you, and I gave it to my first serious boyfriend who I am still with. Anyways, you don't have to be mean or ignore him but no initiating contact or meet-ups. Put all the responsibility entirely on him and make sure he knows you've friendzoned the fuck out of him. Sadly, he will probably disappear when he realizes it. He might step up to the plate--guys are idiots for sure--but it is unlikely and don't count on it.
DeleteIf you guys were taking it so nice and slow as you say, then why was he freaked out? He shouldn't have been if he were serious about you!! Now you know where he stands....its the same place you stood when that other guy was too serious about you. The biggest dilemma in relationships...The people we don't want want us; the ones we do want don't want us. Love happens somewhere along the line.
You sound younger than me, I'm 23, so it makes sense I understand this a little better. Remember, ideally you end up with one person for the rest of your life...so the majority of your relationships and options won't work out. It is tough, but it is preparing you for your future husband!! :)
You are amazing -u've honestly helped me so much in seeing things more clearly and really just made my entire day! I like want to email u to let u know what transpires haha -ur advice is great and I think you and Andrew should team up ;).
DeleteFunny thing is - I'm actually the same age you are haha! You're just wise beyond ur years :) and clearly in a good place -which makes me so happy to hear u found someone great and a guy u can trust to give urself to, that's so awesome and I'm so happy for u :)
Its so funny, I'm usually the one giving advice to friends on boys and maintaining self-respect but I guess when youre in the situation itself, sometimes it can be harder to see something for what it really is. At the same time, maybe that in and of itself is just a sign that this guy is no good/ not for me otherwise I guess there'd be no questions. Im definitely taking ur advice (and will be reading more of this blog) -i do feel a lil silly that I responded yesterday telling him it'd be great to see him, haha but i havent yet (and not planning to) so I guess that's ok, I'm sure he'll get the hint I'm not down with continuing this.
Thank u again so much - you're honestly an angel!
Anything I've said is just a repeat of Andrew and Susan Walsh (check out http://www.hookingupsmart.com).
DeleteI think for most women there is always that one guy that hoodwinks us and completely changes the way we see relationships. Those guys also turn out to be douchebags...I bet 6 months from now you'll be dating someone else and going "what the fuck was I thinking??" It is a good thing though because it takes away the rose-colored glasses and we end up with a more realistic understanding of male-female relationships. You get better...to find someone better!
My email: kelseylys@yahoo(dot)com
good point here about douchebags
DeletePoint is, I barely know anything about this guy -was just chilling/getting to know each other. I'm obviously not looking for casual sex but also not looking to get married this very instant and certainly not to just any guy. I didn't want to lie when he asked if I had sex but I also feel like my answer gave the impression I'm looking to get married immediately and that's definitely not the case.
ReplyDeletepoint is--you're interested enough to post here and ask for advice. You are so far gone at this point even though he has rejected you. You can't deal with the rejection so you're rationalizing it away.
DeleteDon't feel bad. Almost all women do this at some point, myself included. It is a difficult lesson to learn, but you must if you want a boyfriend.
Hey Andrew! How's the book going? Are you publishing under an alias?
ReplyDelete"How do you know when to give [up] your virginity This is another question that betrays somewhat of the wrong attitude. If you have to ask it, it suggests that you don't know why you are a virgin. If you knew why you are a virgin, you would also know under what circumstances you are willing to stop being a virgin..."
ReplyDeleteThis is actually great food for thought for anyone (like myself) who's still a virgin.
Virginity itself is less a problem than the reason for it... if the reason is a genuine commitment to a religious/spiritual standard, then the real turn-off to most men will actually be the religious/spiritual beliefs themselves. Most people in the US still claim a belief in a deity and have some religious identity, but most are led far more by secular ideals and values. This is evidenced by the fact that most mainstream religions don't officially condone sex outside of marriage, and yet it is the norm for most who practice, er, identify with those very religions. So for those who are more sincere in their beliefs, there can be a view that they are, well, fanatical. It will be assumed they will be incompatible in other ways. The woman may intend to stay a virgin until marriage, and while many men will wait a bit, most won't make the commitment of marriage without sex first.
ReplyDeleteThe solution seems to find someone who holds the same convictions with the same seriousness you do...but the next problem is how much that shrinks the dating pool, especially as a woman.
This is my observation - women tend to be more religious than men, as far as being devoted enough to regularly attend some place of worship and adhere to the moral standards promoted by it. This means places of worship have very small dating pools of single men. The men have their pick, and the more devoted ones will marry rather early (likely because of sex). However, since there are not enough men to go around, not all the women will marry young from this small selection of men. So there's a sizable pool of women who are not necessarily undesirable in what this blog claims are the most significant aspects of attractiveness, but they have a major incompatibility with most men still - that of being religious and adhering to moral standards no longer a "norm".
So how to resolve this without a compromise of integrity?
You can't resolve this without compromising integrity. You are right, the numbers don't add up and I believe many women will not marry even though they would like to because of the issue you have described. Some women marry non-Christians because they want a husband and children. Of course God doesn't abandon these people and you can continue to worship him and serve him and love him and raise your children to know him, but marrying a non-Christian is not a choice I could make. In line with this blog post, I know my identity and it doesn't include marrying a non-Christian. Probably means I'm going to stay single.
DeleteIt is by not compromising your integrity that you resolve the "problem." Otherwise yur values are meaningless and you lose your sense of purpose.
DeleteReally honest and helpful article. You have addressed the main issue about the choices we make, why we make those choices and how we can feel pressured by the various cultures we are part of. Sexual behaviour, beliefs and ideas about sexual morality are a part of each person's identity. Maturity means exploring and analysing those values for ourselves.
ReplyDeleteVery, very well written and ENCOURAGING! I am a 27 year old female virgin who has never dated long term or kissed someone (consensually - I was kind of jumped upon after a first date, craved in briefly to advances, but had to say no and push him away...horrible end to an okay date). Talking about my virginity and dating history (or lack thereof)makes me nervous (I think...Where do I start?). I think I'm more insecure about my dating history and lack of kissing skills then my virginity. I feel like I am behind the times in those departments, but your article made me realize that if I had a sound reason for not dating, kissing, or being intimate with another, then I could confidently date others and discuss this subject just the same as any other divisive subject. Thank you so much. For me, I wanted to avoid the getting pregnant young like my mother and my her and myself proud by reaching academic and career goals; struggling to reach career goals and financial stability kept me focused on developing and taking care of myself; when I feel some stability in my life (only two years out of my adult life), I go on dates, but I haven't found anyone that I have connected enough with to go on several dates, but I have talked with one about my "status" and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be (so that's encouraging). It's scary to have financial stability as one of my reasons for not having sex, because I don't know when I will have job that helps me pays off my debt, pays the bills, and helps me buy nice date clothes; but when I do, I know I will be open to dating...and I hope I will be able to find a compatible man who I care about, am attracted to, who cares for me and is committed to me, and wants to build a life together with me.
ReplyDeleteI'm a 20 year old virgin, my virginity doesn't meen anything special to me, actually I find the hole idea of penetrative sex being this huge goal for a woman really stupid! I don't considdered myself a virgin because I have been having sex with myself for quit some time by now, and I know my body well and feel great in my own skin. The only reason I waited was to get emotionally mature to have sex, which I have been for about a year or so. Before this I turned down several suggestions of having sex evan though I physically wanted to, it just felt wrong in my head, and I am proud that I listened to my head instead of rushing into things I weren't ready for.
ReplyDeletePast the last year I have been dating a couple of guys, and a few days ago I went on a date with this really great guy! He invited me to his place, which I politely declained to which he responded "well maybe another time". The date ended with a kiss, and already the same night he texted me to know if I got home safely and to ask for a second date. I really want to get to know him, and since my standards are really high I rarely find a guy whom I'm willing to invest time in! Right, I've set the scene, now my question is, for how long should I wait until having sex with him? If he even wants to when he finds out that I'm a virgin? The thing is that I don't want to have cassual sex with this guy, because I'm looking for something serious. I really just want to know how to deal with this if not with this guy then with another one in the future :) (I appologice for my english)
Anon - r u on birth control?
DeleteYes have been for years due to bad cramps
DeleteOk, I will give my two cents here.
ReplyDeleteI am a 31 year old female virgin. I am attractive and professionally successful and it has been my choice to remain virgin because I have never felt the level of attraction or chemistry I wanted to feel in order to have sex with a guy. (Or if I ever felt it, he didn't feel the same for me, regardless the virginity).
And I fail to see why virginity should be an issue for me. I can understand that it might be an issue for guys who I might date, but again, if it's their fear of taking responsibility for the action, their fear that I might not be able to deal with the chemical reaction after sex, their fear that I might become clingy or whatever... it's THEIR fear, not mine.
I know myself well enough to deal with my fears and I have fought my whole life not to base important decisions on fear, since this approach can only lead to mediocrity. My virginity is not going to be the exception to the rule. And if the guy I am dating cannot deal with his fears anticipating what will happen when/if we have sex, fine. But just to make it clear: it's not my problem/fear and I don't need to be "fixed" or to get imposed the mainstream beliefs. This attitude really annoys me and turns me off, all together.
I have my own thoughts and conviccions. And they might seem weird for many people, OK. I can accept that. But I just won't stop being myself just to bend to the wishes of a person that I am starting to know. That would be the first indicator that he doesn't love me for myself if he wants to change me right from the beginning.
Regarding the "when to say it" question, I'll also give my two cents.
The times I have tried to delay the moment to say this, it had nothing to do with my insecurity, but with the fact that, in my view, it was way too soon to talk about sex (first date or not even that). That clearly showed me that the guys were not there for the long haul and I therefore felt zero commitment to reveal anything else to them. I think that this is just common sense.
I think that in order to get the best deal in life (not only talking about relationships here) you need to risk to end up with nothing. And I know that not everybody is willing to take this risk or ready for this approach. In fact, almost nobody is. But in my view there is no other way to greatness. And life is too short not to, at least, try it.
;-)
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