But, as you might have guessed, I am not writing this just to remind your of your body proportions. No, there is something more important going on, and the attempt to hide your ass is just the symptom. By hiding your ass, you are either expressing insecurity about your body, or else you are showing your lack of comfort with male sexuality.
If you are trying to hide your ass because you don't like the way it looks, you are essentially saying "I am discontent with my body, so I am going to try to hide it." And I get that no one is completely content with their body; it's the hiding it part that is the problem. The alternative, of course, is to say "I am discontent with the way my ass looks, so I am going to do something to change it." By draping your hand across your butt, you are being dishonest rather than proactive. You are doing the same thing as the guy who, when asked by a girl what he does, tells her he "has his own company," when the truth is that he works at his dad's gas station for 50 hours a week and is making a weak-at-best attempt to start a website selling graphic t-shirts on the side. In the same way that he needs to start admitting what he really does with 95% of his time (and then doing something to change it if that makes him uncomfortable), you need to let men look at your ass for what it is, and then use the resulting discomfort as motivation for squats, lunges or dieting.
Granted, the guy who checks you out from behind probably isn't being completely honest either. If he were, he wouldn't wait until you passed to "steal" a look at your ass; he would do it while you are watching. Of course there is the practical consideration that a girl's ass can only be seen from behind, but this doesn't change the fact that most men are too scared or ashamed to express their sexual interest in a girl directly. Those guys probably liked your face or chest more than your ass, but checking those out would have required eye contact and revealing that they like you, which of course requires facing rejection. Anyway, just because most men are insincere in looking doesn't excuse you for being insincere in hiding. I am only saying so to point out that this isn't a gender-specific problem.
Granted, the guy who checks you out from behind probably isn't being completely honest either. If he were, he wouldn't wait until you passed to "steal" a look at your ass; he would do it while you are watching. Of course there is the practical consideration that a girl's ass can only be seen from behind, but this doesn't change the fact that most men are too scared or ashamed to express their sexual interest in a girl directly. Those guys probably liked your face or chest more than your ass, but checking those out would have required eye contact and revealing that they like you, which of course requires facing rejection. Anyway, just because most men are insincere in looking doesn't excuse you for being insincere in hiding. I am only saying so to point out that this isn't a gender-specific problem.
You might attempt to defend this uneasiness by saying that you "don't like being treated like a piece of meat," but this is just an example of clever semantics putting a negative spin on a phenomenon that is so natural that you couldn't - or more accurately, wouldn't - exist without it. Straight men who are unmotivated by an attractive female body are about as common as women who are unmotivated by the idea of commitment. Good luck finding them. You either need to get used to that idea, or get used to the idea of being single, because if you can't feel comfortable with the fact that a man feels sexually attracted to the curves of your body, you can't feel comfortable with men.
Let me be clear here: I am not trying to defend men who only care about a woman's looks (who, by the way don't exist - but this is the topic for another post), and I am not trying to defend rude or crass expressions of male physical desire, like cat-calling or groping. But I am trying to point out that it isn't normal or healthy for women to walk around constantly worried about whether or not men are looking at their asses. And it certainly isn't normal to awkwardly pretend that your limbs happen to be in conveniently "concealing" locations when they have no natural business being there.
So if you are one of the girls doing this, realize that men know what you are trying to do and it doesn't work. And if you want to dig a little deeper, recognize it as a sign of a psychological kink that you need to work on.
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*Many men have a similar discomfort with the reciprocal, which is female emotional desire.
Really good post! I was actually saying to myself the other day - in regards to the same man who always smiles at me and stares me down lustfully when he's talking to me or when he thinks I don't notice - I said to myself "I don't care if he so much as brings out his c*ck to w*nk in front of me.... as long as he DOES NOT touch me."
ReplyDeleteThis context also applies to women who are paranoid of dressing the way they feel and want for fear of attracting male attention. I know ladies who won't even wear fitted jeans cause of their generous bums, it's more so an insecurity.
*eye roll*
ReplyDeleteI only hide my ass if I think my panty lines are showing
ReplyDeleteHide your ass as much as you like. Now you know why many of us enjoy wearing loose clothing and some even eat to avoid those sexual creeps.
ReplyDeleteHuh? "Eat to avoid those sexual creeps"? As in, purposely making yourself fat and unhealthy to prevent men/women from finding you attractive?
DeleteUm, NO! Please re-read the very last sentence over and over until it gets through.
@Andrew How to react if your boyfriend constantly turns his head to look at random women's asses? Is it natural? Should I pretend nothing happened? Should I point it out and laugh? Should I do the same, I mean start looking at men? Should I start a fight about it? I feel like he's dirrespectful of me, because he looks at other women when I'm with him. He says he doesn't do it when I'm not there. Also, sometimes he looks at women who are really slutty, but he doesn't like me to dress like that. Sometimes I compare myself to those women and I feel like maybe they look prettier that me, or something
ReplyDeleteI have a post about this:
DeleteHow to Deal with His Wandering Eyes
I am of Cuban descent and thankfully I inherited, let's just say, 'ample assets' that I was never taught to be ashamed of, nor was I ever butt-shamed into trying to starve it off. I feel somewhat vindicated that the butt has made a triumphant resurgence from the underground into the mainstream. The ardent cat calls that I get from men of all races do not scare me at all, as long as they are made in daylight with dense foot traffic and from a respectful distance. I even smile coyly or say "thank you" depending on my mood. Women who fear the reaction of men to their bodies will soon enough fear that they are NOT getting enough attention once their asses start sliding down to their ankles, so my attitude is to just enjoy is while it lasts.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I meant enjoy 'it' while it lasts, lol
ReplyDeleteOne of the best odes to the ass, EVAR-
ReplyDeletehttps://soundcloud.com/dogspark/eminem-vs-led-zeppelin-ass
I'm uncomfortable with the sexuality of men that I'm not attracted to. I experience a strong visceral rejection response whenever men who aren't attractive to me express any sort of attraction towards me. This could even be a good friend that I would have no problems hugging or being in close contact with regularly. The moment I realize his attraction, and I'm not attracted to him, I feel gross, even if he hasn't done anything. I think that's where the idea of "creep" comes from. We associate that nasty feeling with its source, and therefore, probably unfairly label a lot of men who might not have done anything socially unacceptable. It's probably something we got from our ancestors, to instinctively escape from undesirable males who want to mate with us since the chances of being raped in that situation were far higher during caveman times.
ReplyDeleteInteresting.
DeleteGabrielle, I relate to this so much as well! I actually feel insulted when a man I am not physically attracted to shows interest in me. To be honest, I find it revolting. This really stuck out to me: "The moment I realize his attraction, and I'm not attracted to him, I feel gross, even if he hasn't done anything."
DeleteSame here girl. I even find it offensive honestly. Maybe I'm just a bitch haha
DeleteI second (or fourth) you, Gabrielle! Your first two sentences have stuck me on point. I am very happy with my body and familiar with male sexuality. But whenever I spot a man who does not interest me in the least and he is checking me out, I walk past faster, look away and depending on how uninterested I am I may even make it clear through eye contact.
DeleteI hope you all realise that the problem in this case is you, not the man.
DeleteI fifth this. I have a friend who always gets a little too grabby after a couple drinks and it makes my skin crawl just thinking about it. I also took a human resources class recently and when the instructor asked what defines sexual harrassment, the (off the record) "answer" was the degree of attraction the victim has towards the offender. Its so true when you think about it! A guy at work we think is attractive can certainly get away with a suggestive comment more easily than someone we don't!
DeleteDamn, reading these comments is enough to turn any man into a misogynist, i really hope you all get cheated on or die alone.
DeleteHuh? Whenever I do this is it is because the pants are riding up and you can't pick your wedgie out in public. I think you are looking too much into this Andrew.
ReplyDeleteHahaha wedgie. It's been wayyyy too long since I heard that word used.
DeleteBut no, these girls don't have wedgies. In fact, a few times the girls I've seen do this have been naked, walking away from my bed after sex. And when I teased them about it they admitted why they were doing it.
Doing that after sex might speak to a woman being self-conscious about their body, as you said, or it could be a cute "teehee I'm naked and your a boy and we just did naughty things" (which is juvenile if not "sold" just right) OR it signals that they feel they can't be completely vulnerable around you -- a subconscious defense mechanism.
DeleteThe male gaze can be really intimidating. Outside of the bedroom/personal context, it can even be down right scary and obtrusive. Note, that I don't think a glance or quick look is is a big deal. But when you walk past a group of men and you feel all of their eyes running up and down your body or someone is staring you down, it is easy and understandable to act defensively. It's like crossing your arms or raising your chin or walking faster and with purpose. As you said, the polite thing to do is look quickly. When a man feels entitled enough to stare aggressively, you start to wonder what else he feels entitled to do.
The girls who've told me have said it is because they are self-conscious about their body. I think this is the more common motive.
DeleteAnd I appreciate what you are saying about it being uncomfortable to have a horde of men eye-banging you. You feel judged or maybe even threatened. I get that, and I am certainly not pretending that I would feel (or do) differently if I were a girl in that situation. But I think it is an opportunity to stop and think "what I am I really worried about here? and why?" just as much as it is an opportunity to call men pigs (I realize you aren't saying so).
They do it when they are naked? I learn something new everyday.
ReplyDeleteI think you need to make a better distinction between a woman feeling self conscious when she heads to the bathroom after sex and a woman feeling self conscious/threatened when a group of 6 men publicly objectifies her. These are very different feelings. And they deserve a better distinction in your post. The reality is that you, a man, really can't comprehend how belittling it is to be objectified on a daily basis purely for walking down a street. There is no comparable daily experience for men.
ReplyDeleteDaily? No, of course not. But most men at one point or another been objectified by women at some point or even by the occasional homosexual man that finds them attractive. The reasonable men are able to take those experiences and apply a certain degree of empathy for women in general and try to ensure that their conscious behaviors are kept in check.
DeleteI actually went to a gym in the gayest of gay areas for a few years, and those guys were much stronger than me, so I can relate to being eyed by someone that is capable of raping me. Yes, at first it is uncomfortable, until you recognize that it really isn't threatening because it's happening in public and actually is a compliment.
DeleteI think I made the distinction pretty well: the girl hiding her ass is definitely a case of insecurity about her body, while the girl hiding her ass in front of a group of guys is uncomfortable with male sexuality.
DeleteHi Andrew,
DeleteI don't think your above comment is fair as men are not typically victims of rape. Women are though and it is a legitimate fear you can only understand once you have been subject to sexual assault, which I have. I don't think you understand the female psyche at all when it comes to dealing with sexual attention from men. You want women to be flattered and fail to recognize that the vast majority of women have been physically and/or sexually abused in their lives according to UN stats. You seem to live in some strange fictitious bubble where this is not stark reality all over the world. You want me to be comfortable with something that is triggering? I want to welcome you to my world and most women's where we deserve not to be made comfortable by half the world's population.
Tracey
I personally don't take 'hey baby, i wanna back you up against that wall and put my d*** in your a**' as a compliment but you know, to each his own. And yes, that is the last thing a man said to me while I was walking down the street. Alone. At dusk. And yes, that made me profoundly uncomfortable. It wasn't a compliment - it was about power and making me feel insecure to make himself feel more 'like a man.' I told him to f*** off and felt better but not every woman is going to do that.
DeleteI'm with you on the women who cover their butt when walking from bed to the bathroom - own your flaws, you'll be a much more confident person if you do. But I can't back you on the 'uncomfortable with male sexuality' thing. A lot of 'street compliments' are more about power than male sexuality.
I sympathize with anyone who has been a victim of rape or sexual assault, regardless of gender. Men and boys have been sexually assaulted and raped, usually by other men, but sometimes by women as well. I have been sexually assaulted and I am a woman, but I do not spend the rest of my life fearing men's sexuality. If someone has lived through war, does that mean that no one should ever drive a car because it may backfire and "trigger" some random person's PTSD issues? Many people have been assaulted and hurt in numerous ways. As adults, it is our own responsibility to get help for any kind of trauma that we've suffered, not to expect the world to tip toe around our wounds and guilt trip the whole world into some kind of tyrannical psychological blackmail. FFS, all of this faux-feminist "triggering" bullshit is getting very ridiculous. Andrew, carry on. Please keep writing these articles, they are very much appreciated by MANY women.
ReplyDeleteAndrew, I would applaud you for your skills, but I don't want to trigger anyone! How about some jazz hands instead
ReplyDeletehttp://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/566202/NUS-jazz-hands-clapping-anxiety-feminists
"lack of comfort with male sexuality"
ReplyDeleteYou present this like it's a problem, but it's fine in my opinion - there is no reason why a woman should be comfortable with the sexuality of men she is *not interested in*. It is not a"psychological kink" to be uncomfortable with men that you are not attracted to looking at you. I don't understand the need to question these feelings - they are not wrong, after all.
10:12 AM wrote:
ReplyDelete"lack of comfort with male sexuality"
You present this like it's a problem, but it's fine in my opinion - there is no reason why a woman should be comfortable with the sexuality of men she is *not interested in*. It is not a"psychological kink" to be uncomfortable with men that you are not attracted to looking at you. I don't understand the need to question these feelings - they are not wrong, after all.
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Perhaps, but attempting to shield your ass with your hand from the male gaze just brings more attention to it. I think that was the point of this missive that Andrew was attempting to highlight, in addition to expressing the opinion that it screams of insecurity with not only personaly body image, but of the horror that some icky man whom you are not attracted to you may (GASP!) "look" at you. Jesus Christ on a cracker, the Victorian horror of it all makes me wanna clutch my bloomers and catch the vapors!
On an additional note, could you just imagine the outcry if a heterosexual man or woman stated that they don't feel comfortable with the 'gaze' of those of the same gender? Or if a White person publicly expressed 'discomfort' with non-White people appreciating said White person's beauty?
If you are intellectually honest, you would admit that they would likely be subjected to hours of sensitivity training, if not flat out lose their job.
I am straight, but I've had non-heterosexual people of my same gender "look" at me and even flirt with me, but I took it as a compliment, not as a predatory 'micro-aggression. I did not run and whine on some LGBT blog about being sexually objectified by 'teh gays', and if I did, i would be roundly mocked and rightfully so. How can you not see that?
There is a big difference between high maintenance demands to have strangers pander to your comfort level by not looking at you as if you are some imperial queen demanding the peasants to bow their heads as you pass by in your carriage versus sexual assault or rape. You do yourself, as well as victims of sexual assault and/or rape a huge disservice when you conflate the two. As long as they are not attempting to physically invade your space or attack you, then get over yourself. Life is full of discomfort and things that we don't like and if you don't like that, it's called being an adult in a world that you are a very small part of, at the end of the day.
I guess if I were so uncomfortable with the male sexual gaze of men who I'm not attracted to, I would wear a full head to toe burka or some Western equivalent of it, but I wouldn't bitch about the fact that I have to live in a world where a man who falls short of my expectations merely looks at me. First world problems much?
The double standards regarding whose comfort gets pandered to are quite obvious to all except those with a self-serving agenda.
This must be an American thing. I've never seen a single girl do it around here (central Europe), that would look exceedingly ridiculous and people would stare :)
ReplyDeleteI always wear skirts or shorts (not the long ones and not too short,), I never wear trousers or jeans. In my experience there are two basic types of men: the ones, who stare at my legs openly and the second category, who are trying to hide the fact that they do look at my legs. I have noticed that the men from the second category (who do not stare) are more likely to be respectful, polite and they are more likely to be 'marriage material'. The ones who stare openly, smile etc. are not serious, they are normally only after sex, so I ignore them. Of course, there is a third category of men, who are not into legs, so they are not interested in me. I accept this.
ReplyDeleteHi Andrew
ReplyDeleteYou mention that men who only care about women's looks are a myth - could you make a post about that soon? Also, I think you mentioned somewhere else that you;d be writing a post about how women can improve their personalities. If you could write those when you get the chance that would be awesome, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on both topics and I'm sure the rest of the women who read this blog would too. Great writing as always, as a girl who is a straight shooter realist I thank God for a straight up guy like you in this world of bullshitters.
Sophie H
This is funny. I come from the Czech Republic and never have seen a woman/girl doing that. Is this an American thing or am I just so oblivious? (That's not a rhetorical question, it is very well possible that I just don't notice certain things happening around me, and in this case I'd like to know.)
ReplyDeleteOn another note, I'm getting tired of those sexual (male), sex-seeking / emotional, commitment-seeking (female) parallels, Andrew.
First, there are situations in which it is OK to appreciate another person's looks and those in which it is highly inappropriate. While I don't generally mind guys checking out my ass, breasts, face etc., I don't expect these to be the centre of attention in my work environment. I have my (most likely inborn) sexual preferences regarding men's bodies but I don't throw them in my colleagues' and friends' faces.
Second, in my experience, men, incl. my boyfriend, are by far not as uncomfortable with my emotions (they learn to expect these from women) as they are when I express my appreciation of their body. Regardless of what they look like. Women are not expected to appreciate guys' bodies, it seems.
While women are nearly always expected to seek commitment (marriage, children…). Is it supossed to mean with any decent guy we can get ? I know some guys who I consider physically attractive and great future husbands, incl. my boyfriend - who turns me on way too much, to his taste. I am at the age at which, accoding to you and the guys who occassionally comment on here, I should start thinking of settling down and raising kids. Yet I'd rather live alone and childless than marrying someone about whom I'm not sure whether he loves me with all my quirks or rather cherishes the idea of a family with "a" good-looking, tolerant woman.
As of now, I believe that many men and women (many, not all) look for commitment, GIVEN certain circumstances, individual to each person. Therefore I struggle to identify with the male / female parallels you frequently make.
While I understand your point, Andrew (and normally gain a lot of insight from and agree with your points), I think you a reading too much into this, especially because I don't believe it to be a wide-spread phenomenon.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to your next posts. I'm personally interested in a post about age differences. Recently dated a man 10 years my senior (I'm early 20s for reference). It ended prematurely because it statistically and logically would not work out, and he was not willing to take the risk with me. I understood, but it still sucks. You, basically at the life stage of this man, might have some insights to offer that I have not already considered.
Sometimes it has to do with being on periods, its frightening that guys could see, if for some reason, you had a stain.. Mark you, every girl at some point, stains..
ReplyDeleteI thought so too, but then second-guessed that idea considering the capris are black.
DeleteParts of this post made me laugh.... In my experience men are attracted to confident women, secure/confident men anyway. I did wonder why a woman like the one in the top photo who seemingly appears self-conscious would also wear tight capris that expose what appears to be her cellulite and go out in public with her hair looking so disheveled. She's probably the only one who knows lol.
ReplyDeleteRe: these two comments;
ReplyDeleteAnonymousApril 8, 2015 at 5:02 PM
Gabrielle, I relate to this so much as well! I actually feel insulted when a man I am not physically attracted to shows interest in me. To be honest, I find it revolting. This really stuck out to me: "The moment I realize his attraction, and I'm not attracted to him, I feel gross, even if he hasn't done anything."
AnonymousApril 9, 2015 at 12:05 PM
Same here girl. I even find it offensive honestly. Maybe I'm just a bitch haha
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No one is expecting anybody to flirt with random strangers to whom there is no mutual attraction, but I do not act like a complete twawaffle to people just because I'm not attracted to them. For instance, earlier this afternoon, I was out with my husband running errands, wearing a very body conscious, calf-length dress that is very flattering for those with an hourglass shape.
As we passed a sidewalk cafe brimming with customers, a morbidly obese middle aged man smiled cheerily at me and said, "Hi, beautiful", in a friendly way that did not give me a creeper vibe at all.
After ascertaining that his compliment was directed at me, I just looked at him, nodded my head and said,"Hello" because I knew that he had no other intention of approaching me or otherwise bothering me.
That happens to me quite frequently and the only time that I do not acknowledge men who offer me well-wishes or compliments are is if I'm alone on a deserted street, on public transportation, or at night.
I am quite confident in myself and my appearance so it's not as if I "need" these compliments or anything (anyone who knows me IRL would concur), however I feel that simply acknowledging the well-wishes and compliments (obviously only in a place where I feel safe), even from strangers who I'm not attracted to, goes a long way in increasing my overall positivity of the day, as well as my karma and luck.
Sometimes I think that conventionally attractive people are blissfully ignorant of the fact that looks are very temporal and not just subject to aging, but sudden illnesses and freak accidents. Your looks are a blessing, but they are certainly not who YOU are as a person, a lesson that you will all hopefully learn before they start to change.
When my looks start to change and the bloom of youth is off the rose, or when I become a widow, I am glad to know that I won't be some bitter, b*tchy a$$ grinchy hag who was only cordial to people whom I was attracted to. Once the looks go, your positive energy and good character are all that remain.
You guys need to read "The Picture Of Dorian Gray" by Oscar Wilde again, lol.
P.S. No one is suggesting that you have to be Mother Teresa to sociopathic street harassers or boundary crossers, but again, if you are not willing to have even an iota of decency toward respectful, fellow humans who are merely acknowledging your gifts, briefly and in passing (not "creeps" who say rude sh*t or try to encroach on your space), that's fine.
ReplyDeleteJust be prepared to get treated the same way, eventually. Be prepared to be the old lady who everyone ignores or is rude to, just because they are "not attractive" anymore.
Shallow people always get their comeuppance, one way or another and it isn't very pretty to see. Life is funny like that.
Good luck to everyone out there. Keep the pepper spray strapped for the "creeps", haha.
Life is short, so I know that I intend to squeeze every drop of joy that it has to offer before this ride ends.
"When my looks start to change and the bloom of youth is off the rose, or when I become a widow, I am glad to know that I won't be *remembered as* some bitter, b*tchy a$$ grinchy hag who was only cordial to people whom I was attracted to.
ReplyDeleteGood God, it's late. I'm tired and full of typos, so i will now back away slowly from the keyboard, typos be damned......
I agree with other posters that you absolutely MUST consider that this type of gesture by a woman has to do with female functions. We bleed 20% of the time, therefore making us self-conscious of staining that we can immediately detect with an instantaneous brush of the hand on our backside, ESPECIALLY if we know someone is behind us. There is also the case of wearing feminine products (ahem, pads or liners) that we wonder if others can see through our clothing. Also - random wetness. We want to know if it's there, so our hand investigates and confirms to help us feel less self-conscious. Minimally, wedgies and dirt/leaves might also be present, and since we know that attention is directed towards our asses from people/men behind us, we want to make sure it's clear of embarrassing traces. I truly believe this is the source of the behavior you're noticing. A man would never know this (especially what it's like to menstruate, but also to have the awareness that your ass is being stared at and could contain shrapnel from your break on the park bench that everyone will see).
ReplyDeleteWow, I'm a woman and I've never done this -- my bottom's not very curvy, so I guess it never occurred to me to try to hide it. And I've never noticed any other woman doing this, either...but that could be because I don't check out women's butts a lot. I guess I'll keep an eye out...!
ReplyDeleteSometimes I'll tug on a on hem or neckline if I feel like I'm showing too much. That's a lot more effective, anyway.
So basically once American women get old they will complain men dont check them out anymore. American women want it all without the negatives. Aint gonna happen. Its amazing how few of these women felt disgusted when men below their league were checking them out/or even asked them out. Now the same women should know and understand the same feeling men have when these women go for guys out of their league and he never commits. He sees you below his league even though he slept with u for 3 years just like you see men below your league(even though he is in your league. but u dont see that cause u have been sleeping with men above ur league) when they approach u.American women are the worse compared to european women. Majority of men and women are boring. But even the boring women want non boring men till she hits 30 and the rules are different. Most of these women want tall guys but their market value is low after 30. Its like women want this but when men ask for something they get bashed. No wonder men have left the building. Women want masculine men but when men ask for feminine women they get bashed. Women ask for tall guys and get to sleep with them, but when men want women with nice hips they get a dirty look. Women want alpha males but are beta boring themselves. Its like an american woman can sleep with a famous celebrity and still complain about it. An american guy knows he will never sleep with sports illustrated model and still get bashed by american women. American women have become the men who use to beat their wives. You get women here trying to fight guys, knowing that they can hit a guy n the government will back them up. American women are what we call hitting the lottery ticket and end up being a crack addict. Having the world in your hands from the age of 16 to 25 and still messing up by chasing men out of your league. Women cheat as much as men nowadays. There is no respect for men in America. Its all about women. Hell men dont have any privacy unless they are in a basement. Europe has more feminine women than America. Why is that? After all the male bashing women have done in the US, they better be ready for the aftermath.
ReplyDeleteI've been reading this blog for a couple years now and this is one of the worst posts Andrew has ever written. Please, don't include this in your book. It isn't helpful.
ReplyDeleteAndrew you think you are a lot smarter than what you actually are.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best posts titled women get to play out of their leagues sums up american women perfectly. It was written by thomas"in order for men to have sex with lots of women they will have to “date down” a league – he will then commit when he meets the best he possibly can, i.e. someone in his league. it’s easy for men to know their level because women above them level reject them.
ReplyDeleteUsing the same evolutionary basis, women aim as high as they can and then try and get the best one they can to commit. It’s hard for women to know their league because guys above her will still date her for sex, but not consider her for commitment.
Basically women can “date up” but they have to “marry down,” and men will “date down” but will only “marry up”. Men realize this from a young age because to get sex we have to drop our standards. It often takes women a lot longer to realize that in order to get married she will eventually have to “marry down” (settle) or stay single. The longer she waits, the older she gets and the more she will have to compromise.
That’s why women find dating so difficult.
I agree with you. In my own experience, the average-looking women are the ones who really seem to fall into this trap because they think they are far more attractive than they actually are. The prettier women seem to be more realistic and understand the power of their beauty.
DeleteWomen in their teens upto 30s only consider alpha men which are 20%. All other men meaning 80% men are invisible to women. When women say men can get laid easily they are talking abt the alpha males. Once a woman is old, looks gone, than she will have to for a guy in her league that she rejected in her teens to 30s. All the post on this thread from women get to play out if their league to whats it's like approaching women are constantly telling women how much work men have to do VS how easy a woman can get dates, sex from men way above her league. Men will have sex with women they are not attracted to. Most will even start a relationship with women they are not attracted to. Gene Simons even said he slept with few women who had moustaches. Warren beatty even said he had a few women who were hairy from legs to arms. Colin Farrell even proposed sex to a 60year old wrinkle woman. It's women who are living in Disneyland assuming men have it easy
DeleteAli - how about you stop posting on a woman's site and actually go try to find a girlfriend. Your posts are pathetic.
ReplyDeleteMy posts speak the truth.
ReplyDeleteDude, you always complain that women don't want you, like how you couldn't get a 29 year old woman's number at a bar, but women will never want you if you staring at them like some old perv. Every post I have read on this blog tells me that you TRY TOO HARD and act desperate with women. If you act like you've never seen an ass before, women are going to think you are desperate as fuc. Stop staring at strangers asses, it looks desperate as hell
ReplyDeleteI could give you a lot of advice, but if you sitting around at age 28 with your " boys" staring at asses and talking about "game", no amount of advice will fix that shit. If you grow up and act your age, more women will want you. I am 25 and don't act like that shit. Women will be rolling their eyes or laughing at your ass. Don't blame the women. You need to get your shit together if you nt to be successful with women. Be more masculine. The way you talk is very iffeminate. Overthinking things is very iffeminate. It will turn women off every time.
ReplyDeleteThats the whole point. Men will sleep, date masculine women. But masculine women dont want feminine men. Leagues do exist in the dating. By 35-40 a woman knows her dating league and some just get cats cause even though they are a 6, they want that 8 or 9 that never committed to them
ReplyDeleteOmg, what's up w the heightened anger and animosity in these comments? Can't we all just get along? Lol. I'm leaning towards agreeing with Ali. People can pontificate, and bitch and moan from now until the cows come home, but at the end of the day I think one of the easiest ways to understand your "league" is by taking a simple look at who you date and the kind of people that are attracted to you.
DeleteAlong w some of Andrew's posts here, Roosh has an EXCELLENT post titled something along the lines of "you are who you date." I can't find it, but even if you're intentionally dating below/above your league and the mismatches result in you not getting the commitment you want, you're still casting ur pearls to swine, or operating out of ur league. If a person realizes they're dating out of their league (regardless of the reason), it's likely because they can't (regardless of the reason) date people who they are attracted to or people they think they deserve. That's when people need to be honest w themselves and consider self-improvement. It's true that men are less likely to discriminate when it comes to dating/fucking women below their league that they aren't interested in committing to. That happens for any number of reasons. But if that same guy had access to his hot 10-league woman, would he really be slumming with the 2's? Women tend to be the ones w the self-misconceptions, and don't understand that unlike women, men seem to discriminate in a different way when it comes to sex versus actual commitment. I might not be articulating what I mean to in the best way, but you are who you date. If you think you deserve better than you've been dating, then self-improvement might be an option to consider.
Andrew's stop having sex to prove he likes you chapter is a good read. The last two chapters on having self-respect is probably a good place to start too.
I too disagree with the second reason - or rather, with the assumed weakness of it. I think if a woman feels uncomfortable with a man she doesn't know checking out her butt, she should go with that feeling. It may indicate a discomfort with a male's sexual desire, but she doesn't have a relationship with that male. He's just a stranger.
ReplyDeleteTo use your analogy of the female emotional desire - a man doesn't need to provide emotional connection and support to women he doesn't know. He can choose to, or he can choose not to. If a woman he doesn't know or value makes him uncomfortable, he can refuse. His boundaries here do not mean that he isn't eager to accept and reciprocate the emotional desire of a woman he's interested in.
A woman, likewise, does not need to accept male sexual desire. She, too, can refuse to play along for strangers. This doesn't mean she isn't eager to accept and reciprocate the sexual desire of a male she's interested in. It doesn't mean she "doesn't understand male sexual desire." It just means she doesn't care for strange men staring at her butt. This is not a big deal, nor is it indicative of a Bigger Problem. To be honest, I am surprised you failed to make this connection once you began the analogy.
I don't use the hand-cover myself, like the woman in the photo did. But I'm willing to cut her some slack - I might resort to that too if I knew someone was trying to photograph my butt from behind.
As for the women who did this after sleeping with you, I feel a little bad for them. It seems like you must have been subconsciously a little judgemental of them, since you teased them about it, then posted about it on your blog. I might cover myself too if I felt judged while naked with a man I'd just slept with. I'd feel unsafe in the vulnerability of that moment. Being naked AFTER sex takes much more bravery than being naked before or during, because you know you're now being seen with 20/20 vision rather than lust-clouded vision.
I agree with this - I commented on the article earlier with a similar idea, but I think you've said it better.
DeleteI would also like to say feeling uncomfortable with the sexuality of a strange man is advantageous. Sex can cost a woman (pregnancy, violence, reputation) so I think an uneasy feeling is positive. It will hopefully stop her from behaving in a way that could endanger her. If a woman felt okay with the sexuality of strange men, I think they’d be a higher probability of her experiencing a bad situation.
Remember, negative feelings e.g. discomfort, are not themselves a problem. They just are. Andrew, here, has judged ‘uncomfortable’ to be ‘a problem’. But, for the woman, it isn't. It’s beneficial.
So, it’s actually Andrew who has the negative feelings - the problem - towards a ‘hiding’ woman. The woman does not have a problem herself.
I'm curious to know why Andrew feels this way, but he seems to be quite selective in which comments he answers....
Bascially women will have sex with men who are lower status,not alpha male, but women wont sleep with nice guys till she has been really hurt or given up on the dating scene. Even then...women will only sleep with men who are alil masculine. Just talking to her doesnt work. Men have to do alot of work otherwise she will flake or fade away. Alot of good looking guys approach women and still get rejected. A woman doesnt need to have a right approach cause guys are easy. For men to get result that have to come with a different vibe.
ReplyDeleteThis article is spot on and I am an offender, having been "blessed" with an ass that I am not 100% comfortable with the attention it brings. I will try to change my mindset! And I'll maybe carry a smaller purse ;P bc that's an ideal eye-to-ass deterrent.
ReplyDeleteIf you're comparing male sexual desire to female emotional desire, male sexual desire from random strangers is pretty much like if some chick came up to you in a bar and started crying on your shoulder and asking for comfort.
ReplyDeleteThere's a reason a lot of women think males in general are retarded and are lucky when they find one who isn't.
Nice post and photos!) I think that many people don't understand who is "alpha woman" but they should know it! Read https://kovla.com/blog/what-s-being-an-alpha-female/ it must open your eyes to this subject and you will know many new things! Enjoy)
ReplyDeleteI find walking around ass-out in leggings extremely distasteful and tacky. When I do wear leggings I make sure to put on a tunic long enough so that I don't look like a skank. And no, it has nothing to do with body issues; You don't get to see every damn intimate curve of my body in public unless we're at the beach and we're all half naked or we're intimate. It's about self-respect and not allowing just anyone to feast their eyes on your body but only a select few. Why should a strange creeper get that momentary pleasure of gawking at my lady parts when I could care less about him? Where's my dignity? Why should I walk around trying to please creeps? Is that all my self worth is?
ReplyDelete
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Funnily enough, most of the time women do this, i don't start staring until they put their hands there. It just calls more attention to the butt.
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